This Golden Hour

50. Jolene Fender and Little Fenders

• Timothy Eaton

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In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Jolene Fender from North Carolina. Jolene is an unschooling mother of three and a digital creator with an impressive following on Instagram. Jolene didn’t like the way the school system was dealing with teaching on Zoom during COVID, and this led her to start teaching her daughter the material instead. This gave Jolene the confidence to start homeschooling! She loved that her kids could spend more time outside and that they could delve more into reading aloud together. Jolene believes it is important that her children understand screens and how to use them, and to not think of screens with a negative mindset. She reminds homeschool families that homeschooling need not be so challenging. We have many resources, we are not alone, and there are many people who have walked the path before us who are willing to help.

Connect with Jolene
@littlefenders

Books
Hold On to Your Kids
The Self Driven Child
Wishtree
Wilderlore

Resources
CLT Exam

Proactive Homeschool Dad (PHD) Course

PHD Course

This Golden Hour

Jolene Fender

Reading, researching, because all that will reaffirm Your gut feeling, but also gain confidence that this is the right thing. And even if you don't have all the answers, You are going to figure it out. You are not alone in this. There's just plenty of people that have walked ahead of you, but, also like, you know your kids better than Any teacher ever will. And you will figure it out, and they will be okay.

Timmy Eaton

Hi. I'm Tim Eaton, homeschool father of 6 and doctor of education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years, and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out. But people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get Started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower Anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling, and homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today, and enjoy this episode of this golden hour podcast as you exercise, drive, clean, or just chill. You're listening to this Golden Hour podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Jolene Fender from North Carolina. Jolene is an unschooling mother of 3 and a digital creator with an impressive following on Instagram. Jolene didn't like the way the school system was dealing with teaching on Zoom during COVID, and this led her to start teaching her daughter the material instead. This gave Jolene the confidence to start homeschooling. She loved that her kids could spend more time outside and that they could delve more into reading aloud together. Jolene believes it is important that her children understand screens and how to use them and to not think of screens with a negative mindset. She reminds homeschool families that homeschooling need not be so challenging. We have many resources. We are not alone, and there are many people who have walked the path before us who are willing to. Welcome back to this Golden Hour podcast. Today, we have with us Jo Fender, and I'll let her pronounce her name totally appropriately. But we're grateful to have Jo with us. She is a digital creator, homeschooling mother of 3, and She also has a really large Instagram following, which we're so grateful to have somebody with so much Creativity being shared with so many people. So grateful that you're with us, Jo.

Jolene Fender

Oh, it's great to meet you in person, on video, but yeah, Really nice to have a conversation today. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton

Indeed. And maybe just give us a little bit of bio. I know you're coming from the North Carolina area, but give us a little bio of just Whatever you wanna say about yourself, and then we'll get started.

Jolene Fender

Okay. So the correct pronunciation of my name is Yes. Joanne Fender. I used to be a Fournier. Um, I'm French Canadian. My husband and I are both Canadian, and we moved to the US Roughly 7 years ago, and we purely moved for the weather. Mhmm. We love to be outside, and it's not that we didn't like winter sports, but we just love to spend 5, 6, 7 hours outside. And sometimes it's a little difficult when you have to, you know, Potty train in a snow suit. So when we had the opportunity to move To the US, the transfer we completely jumped on it. We're like, let's make this happen before our second is born. So my youngest 2 kids are American born. Well, They have dual citizenship. But, yeah, we really love North Carolina.

Timmy Eaton

And how did you choose North Carolina? Or is that just where the opening was? Or

Jolene Fender

In my during my mat leave with my oldest, We rented our house in Ottawa and went and just rented a place on the beach in Florida. So we did 1 year. We were in Cocoa Beach. The following winter, we went to Clearwater Beach on the opposite coast, and I think that was just enough To solidify our moving, but we also didn't know if we could hack a summer in Florida. Because even in April, it started getting pretty hot. Yeah. And my husband had been coming down for a Big annual golf trip, and it was always in the Pinehurst North Carolina area. And he sold me on it. He said, the, Uh, the schools are good. The weather's perfect, and it still have this you still have the change of season that you don't get in Florida. I get to high g a little bit and wear your cute sweaters and that kind of stuff. So Yeah. That's where we went. I was, like, sight unseen, sold our house in Ottawa in 24 hours. So we were Technically homeless. And we're like, we gotta buy a house, and I've never been to North Carolina other than A rest stop off the 95. So it was like, I hope it's good. This is a big test of faith in our relationship.

Timmy Eaton

Right? Wow. That's awesome. I was telling Jo before we press start here that I have my first 5 siblings were born in North Carolina. My dad's from there, and so I love the area myself, and so I'm glad you're there. That's awesome. So but Ottawa is beautiful. I haven't been myself, but I've had colleagues there, and I just have same pictures. And I know it's beautiful. The fall is amazing. Do you miss any of that?

Jolene Fender

We were 2 blocks from the canal. So in the winter, it would freeze over, and you could skate. And it yes. If I could take Ottawa and just Transport it somewhere where it doesn't stick around like 20 for yeah. But even like, it's been with the client with the change in the climate, it's Become last year, I don't think the canal opened. I don't think it like, it's I remember the first 2 years were They're like it would freeze over, and you could skate for probably 6 weeks. And now last year, I don't think they opened at all. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's yes. Ottawa is amazing. Love the

Timmy Eaton

been since you moved? 7 years. 7 years. Wow. And so and just love the time outside. Is that the

Jolene Fender

That is our thing. And once we Talk more about homeschooling or if you wanna talk about homeschooling now. Like, We were pandemic COVID homeschooler like a lot of people did. And I think immediately, I was like, I already felt like my kids my oldest was at a Montessori preschool part time before the pandemic, and she was entering kindergarten the year of the pandemic. 20 20, she was a kindergartener. And it was already hard for me to kinda let that go knowing because her Montessori was, like, pretty much like forest school. So she was outside So many hours a day. And just the thought of going from that to public school with, 6 plus hours inside a school building it was already aching at my heart, especially because it was, like, gulping against our core values. But we everybody does it. It's like that's the norm. I never yeah. And homeschooling was definitely lean on my radar. It was just not something that I even considered. My dad is a retired high school math teacher. know, I was a good student on paper. Like, I was a straight a student kind of thing. I knew how to take a test. when She started during the pandemic, and we went on to online lessons and small groups, It was so much screen time, and she wouldn't migrate onto YouTube by accident.

Timmy Eaton

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's just like

Jolene Fender

I could not it was Too stressful because I also had 2 younger kids at home. And I point blank told the teacher send me what you need me to cover With her. And we will we won't attend the, the Zoom meetings or whatever it was and we're Purely gonna just send in the information send in the completed assignments. She's that's great. We could totally do that. Not a problem. She was great. So she said absolutely, you can do that. And I think that gave me the confidence to to teach my daughter so that, she could stay on Track with all of that. And it made me realize too that there were gaps in her reading that I was like, why is? So they were doing guided reading. I think that's what it's called where it's guessing from the picture. And I had started reading up a lot on the science of reading and all this stuff. Mhmm. And when I realized that that's what they were doing, I was like, and then I listened to podcast. And I'm like, what is happening? So that's when I was like, okay. I'm gonna purchase a reading curriculum. So I purchased a phonics based Curriculum, like, all about reading, and then it just blossomed. She she was, exploding in her reading. So I just got I started getting really confident that I could not only do this, but I could also like, Really follow her lead and bring her up to as far as, the sky is the limit kind of thing. Yes. At

Timmy Eaton

what grade was she in at this time? Sorry. I missed you.

Jolene Fender

She was in kindergarten. Oh. She was at kindergarten. And

Timmy Eaton

She's your

Jolene Fender

oldest. She's my oldest. Yeah. Yeah. So and yeah. And then when people started coming back in North Carolina. I think it was not that a few months, and then there was, like, back in person. And it was just like No. It was a bummer. We're spent yeah. And we're spending maybe an hour doing our schoolwork our basics. And then the rest of the day, we get to play. We get to explore. We get to she's a big crafter. We get to do things and read more books. I wasn't we were we're reading so many read alouds chapter, Yeah. Middle grade novels that really expose them to Really rich literature that we didn't have time for. It was there wasn't enough hours

Timmy Eaton

in the day. Name a few that you've loved.

Jolene Fender

Oh my goodness. Wishtree is a beautiful story. It's like It's it's from the perspective of a 200 year old oak tree that's seen in these neighborhoods, and It ties in stereotyping and racism and all these things. I loved Wishtree. We've really enjoyed Wilderlore. That's a book series. So for any Harry Potter fans, it's like it's a great series. And they're following year by year. So I think the fourth 1 comes out in February. The wild robot, the whole series of them conservation, and it's like this It's like a perspective of a robot. It's yeah. There's so many amazing books.

Timmy Eaton

I love hearing people's experiences. So that was like your that was so you didn't have previous exposure to homeschooling, like friends or just you didn't know much about homeschooling before.

Jolene Fender

Not at all. But I would say I've been a stay at home mom from the beginning. Mhmm. And I think it made me realize and especially like, I I started immersing myself in reading John Holt And John Taylor Gatto, Julie Bogart. I'm trying to think of the other ones. But, anyways, Like, just like oh, Peter doctor Peter Gray, of course. And I think it just made me realize I've been Following my child's lead from the beginning. Yes. I've been doing this. You've been home schooling this. Yeah. And maybe the way we school things the way we are going against the natural rhythm of our learning and our growth and our natural curiosity. So I think it's like it really I got confident after that just doing a lot of research myself To realize that I've literally been doing this from the

Timmy Eaton

start. What's so impressive about your what you were sharing was that you did that so on your own. It's not like you were seeking out. You were just naturally responding to your daughter. And, you know, if I were to share 1 thing with so this is probably almost my fiftieth interview since I started this last March. And what I am seeing is a very common thread that The mother sometimes the father, but definitely the mother in these homeschool situations is was already a natural learner, already a questioner or somebody who was looking for alternatives to whatever wasn't sitting right with them. And then that's definitely situation in our family. My wife was just like, why am I just don't know why I'm sending my kid away for 6 hours for somebody else to spend that quality time with them. And she just could not make sense of that. And so for us, it's been totally about time. Time together and, like and then all the other things, benefits academics and whatever else are just like gravy, but to spend that much time together. And anyway, you're you just confirmed or reaffirmed that it's a common thread that these moms just wanna be with their kids, and they're interested and they're learners. Were you always like that, like a learner and I

Jolene Fender

absolutely. My dad's My dad was a wonderful teacher and always kind of Courage that natural curiosity, but also thought outside the box. Like, He taught advanced physics and calculus and like, he was a grade 12 teacher. But he was because he had summers with me, I just have such great memories of just going for these walks and Taking time to pick up the same rock over and just different noticing little things in nature. And like, my kids are so naturally curious, and I just there's so so much beauty in the world that I love to be able to model the Model that for them so that they can not only for their mindfulness because if you dial back, there's so much stress in this world that If you can be like, I'm gonna, feel the sun on my skin. I'm gonna smell the fresh leaves. I'm gonna Touch these rocks or this bark and all these little things reconnect you ground you back to your center and just ground you to the world That we live in. So I just yeah. I it's hard thinking to even send Sending them back, but we are, like we play year by year. But my oldest, and especially being, like, such an introvert like I am, like, I was Surprised that she's no. I'm good. I love our life right now, and She has so much time to do her art, which is really 1 of her big strengths in music and things like that. But yeah. Hard. Like even

Timmy Eaton

yeah. So the so I can see the passion for nature and be out there. Have you done much journaling or nature drawing?

Jolene Fender

Yeah. We do a lot of different things. We have a lot of co ops. have a co op that does a lot of we do a lot of book Clubs. And in those book clubs, we do a book party every month to celebrate the read aloud that we did, and We will have all kinds of activities. So some of it's journaling, some of it is crafting, language arts activities Things to move their bodies. But we basically just celebrate books. And if I if there's 1 thing that we do in our family, I think we're part of 4 book clubs. Okay. And I yeah. The book clubs have been amazing and, currently, you are, you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. We have we have a graphic Novel book club. We have 2 fiction, then we have a non like, a not a nonfiction, but historical fiction. So we're learning our History through every month is a different so we had 9 11, and then we had the Mayflower Crossing, then we had Cherokee the Trail of Tears. And because we are 4 hours from Cherokee Yes. 3 families took all the kids. We had 10 kids. 10 kids, 3 moms. We rented an Airbnb in Cherokee and Oh, so totally. Spent a week. They are, really like, learning By doing, learning by really experiencing

Timmy Eaton

the area. It's education, man. I love hearing that. Look. I have to share I have to share 2 things because you're making me think of stuff. But My so 1, my wife has the same, it seems like zeal and love for field trips that you're expressing. Like, She came home the other day. I think it was on Thursday and it was my she took it was a weird mix. She took my 17 year old son and my 10 year old daughter. And they out of our other kids, those are the ones that went to this. There's this lady we know really who does stained glass. And so she took this group of kids including our kids, and they all just went and they did these really cool Stained glass things, they all come they all came home with these stained glass mountains, and they're just beautiful. I should show you before I go. But, anyway and then when my wife came home, she was like, man, I seriously love field trips because it just is magical for the kids, and they light up in their curiosity. So And then the other thing is that we're we're having this book club tonight, actually, because Okay. They've been doing this whole group has been doing The Christmas Carol or something. I think it's that 1. I haven't been as involved as my wife and the kids, but and they're meeting together, and they're coming, And they're gonna have a bunch of food, and so they just love those experiences. And I can see that you guys are doing that well. How do you How do you manage the 4, though? The 4

Jolene Fender

book clubs? Yeah. The co op is is very collaborative. So the way we have it set up is that you sign up for your book. And because we share the workload, I probably lead 1 every 3 months Mhmm. Arso. So other than that, it's just reading the book ourselves. And we spent we do a lot of a read aloud. My girls I'll read at night because then the little guy is not so boisterous. Yeah. It's awesome. So we I don't know. We just read a lot. So for us, it's like it hasn't been so hard to manage the reading. Sometimes we have to Squeeze in the audiobook because we didn't quite get in time, but we listened to it in the car. Yeah. Oh, for sure. But that's the 1 thing that my kids always wanna do. They will put you know, the all kids will push back on certain things, but when it comes to being Oh, yeah. They will, yes.

Timmy Eaton

That's true. Don't you love how they just cuddle around you naturally when you start reading? Like, all of a sudden their all of a sudden their arm is on your arm and I know. They just snuggle in. I love it too. I'll tell you what. We've had 2 we've had 2 kids graduate from homeschooling. And to this day, a read aloud happens every day, and age doesn't matter. And we really we share that. That's excellent. So your main motivations to start homeschooling, you've said have you seen them evolve like any other motivations. So as you've seen benefits or or, you things that you've really liked about homeschooling, how have you how would you say your motivations to continue her to do it, has evolved over time. So I think

Jolene Fender

the main thing I've seen in myself is I was I felt like I was a lot more structured at the beginning because I felt so much pressure Mhmm. To possibly because I didn't know if they were gonna go back or what was gonna happen Yeah. To just stay on track Totally. Whatever you wanna call that. Right? I know. And I think I just realized how much negative energy that was bringing in and how I was creating this culture around like, not wanting to sit down and learn. Meanwhile, they were learning all the time. I didn't even have to try. It was happening. But I think that has allowed me to grow so much to let go to deschool myself. I still find myself having to deschool myself. Same here for sure. Because you'll be around people that are a lot more structured than you are, and it's hard not to fall into to the trap and go down the water with them. you always have those insecurities. Like, Am I Am I messing them up?

Timmy Eaton

Yeah. How does this turn out at the in the

Jolene Fender

end? And it's a either way, though, it's Like a giant leap of faith. I always said it's a leap of faith to send them to school. It's a leap of faith to decide to homeschool them yourself, self, but it is a lot more pressure when you're taking that own that onus on you yourself. Yeah. Everything that goes bad is your

Timmy Eaton

fault. Yeah. And you know what's you know what's interesting about that insight? If I can because I've thought about that a lot too. And, and after 15 plus years of homeschooling. Still, like you're saying, we have to be mindful of that too. And it's interesting because it's weird in a sense that we're scared to take that on ourselves, but yet, no teacher's gonna take that upon themselves if they're you know what I mean? Either way, we're gonna take it upon ourselves because it's our kids. And that's what's so interesting because we're like, oh, yeah. know, Because what do we wanna do? Blame somebody else? Who cares if we can blame him? We still have to deal with the outcome of what, of our kids. And is it based on the purposes that or the objectives we have for that education? So I totally see it. It's so universal, that idea of continually having to to d school. And so Mhmm. What would help do you think somebody what would in your experience, what would help somebody um, have to deschool less?

Jolene Fender

Deschooless. I think it's just start to really shift your mindset because even, and I find it seasonal too. I will get that feeling right before school ramps up and Everybody especially being on Instagram a big part of it is it's not just dropping content, but it's also like, engaging with Other creators. Mhmm. And I have a number of friend creators that are more structured. And when it comes time to Before like Christmas schooling and then before September, all the curricula companies are, like, Trying to push their product. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's on the bandwagon. And then, like, all is these amazing resources, and you start to feel like you're not doing Yeah. So overwhelming. And it's it is. It is. And it's designed that way. To start to shift the mindset that, observe your children. If you have to go back and write down every single thing you did this week that is learning, Do that. If that helps your brain to just accept that you're doing enough, do that. But it is like a giant Mindset shift. Yes. So, like, Really feel comfortable with it. And I don't think anybody's always a hundred percent confident with The road, but the road is always changing.

Timmy Eaton

And just from what I the little I know about your guys' situation and what you're like, I think 1 thing that would help and I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to have to deschool because it's a good thing. It's definitely a good thing. But I'm saying if 1 wanted to deschool less or Have to deschool us. I think 1 thing that would help is what I'm hearing from you that you were for example, so committed to the kids being in nature. And so nobody's gonna change you on that. That's like a core value that's in you. And so if you just always, weigh things against those core values and purposes. So, For example, if you articulated that 1 of my main purposes for the education of my children or 1 of the outcomes that I'm pursuing, is a love of nature or a love of learning or a love of books or whatever it is in each family that keeps you grounded to go, I don't really care what they're doing in school. I don't really care. Not even not in a negative way, but just I'm not worried about what that Other homeschool family does because these are the purposes we are committed to. And so if you stay true to those and you articulate those, Then you have something to fall back on always to go, yeah. I don't have to d school as much because I'm so committed to being in nature, spending time together, going on field trips, whatever it is. And so I think it's worth it for families to, at some point, write that down and then make it living. It doesn't have to be in stone because you'll evolve as well. But just to go, no. We really wanna be outside, and we wanna make sure that we read aloud every day. And that way, you have to deschool less. You're just committed to yourself.

Jolene Fender

Yeah. Because comparison is the thief of joy. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton

Yeah. What would you say? I mean, I kinda put words in your mouth there about Nature and all this good thing. But what would you say if you had to articulate 3 or 4 things that are like, here are these are the things that the Fender family is all about when it comes to their education and lifestyle. What defines you guys in that way? So

Jolene Fender

definitely nature reading. My background is in sciences. My husband's a an electrical engineer. Sorry. I had to think about it because he hasn't practiced. He works at IBM, so he works in tech. And I will say, I it's a fine line between technology and what is safe. And I I have my living is online and with social media, and it doesn't mean that my kids that I want my kids to have a channel because I see all facets of social media. But in a way, I'm very well equipped to help them navigate through That time when it comes to that time. But I will say that my oldest especially she's a An entrepreneur. We've done 3 makers markets, like kids fairs where they create their products and sell the products and market just to Sell herself. We did 1 yesterday, and she was like, slime is 2 dollars. Now I'm like, you're cutting into your profits. But she was trying to get rid of her stock. And so she's definitely entrepreneur. I'm not saying my kids won't go to college, but I think there's more than 1 way to be successful in this world, Especially when upper higher level schooling is, putting you in a hundred thousand dollar debt. Like Totally. There's if she was like, I wanna start my business. This is my business plan, and it's solid. I need a hundred thousand dollar loan. I would feel more comfortable doing that than spending a hundred grand on a degree that doesn't, that doesn't necessarily Get you where you wanna be. And I think it's shifting. A lot of things are shifting. So I will say With technology, I'm trying to prepare my kids for jobs that we don't even know what they are. Right? In 20 years, what are those jobs Gonna look like. What it is gonna be the demand? So, like, AI is huge right now huge. And I'm still trying to navigate AI, and I do use AI to a certain extent. And I'm teaching my kids how to use ChatGPT. My daughter was making watercolor cards, Christmas cards, and she wanted To put in some fun puns, like Christmas puns Yeah. In the cards, and she was using Google. I'm like how about We use Chat GPT, and I showed her how to give a prompt that's concise so that it gives you lots of information. I told her, You're gonna get a bunch of stuff. Some of it is gonna be good. Some of it is gonna be okay. Some of it is gonna be great, and you pick and choose what you want. But she asked for 50 different Christmas Ponds, and it just keep within seconds, gave her a list that she was able to use. Those types of things, they're here to stay. And I know it can be Scary, but I want I wanna expose my kids so that they can really like, they all know how to use Canva. They create labels. They create graphics. They Great coloring sheets. All these things that I think are, like, really great because the tools are there. It's just, like, how do we navigate it safely and Without also losing yourself into an online world because I see the negative effects that Yes. Too much screen. So the it's like more of good screens and not so good screens. It's what is good content to consume?

Timmy Eaton

And what I love what you're, like, demonstrating there is that so I just edited the interview with my mother-in-law. I interviewed her about a couple months ago. We finally edit it. But she's a very involved homeschooling grandmother other and help so much. And 1 of her observations about homeschooling is exactly what you're emulating right there, which is that you're meeting the world with your children. So the idea that homeschool families are not exposed, there might be examples of that, but that's so archaic. These families are out and doing things. And they're you know, that's why the socialization question becomes such a joke at this point. It's like they're having this awesome proper socialization experience. But but you're meeting that with them. To be, be coming upon things that are either really good or not good, They're beholding that with their mom. And so you're helping them navigate that and deal with that exposure and talk through it and discuss it. And so that's healthy. That's a way to be able to I like the way she said it, meet the world with them. And so you're obviously doing that with your kids. So

Jolene Fender

Yeah. And we're we're very lucky where we are because because I think North Carolina has is the state with the most homeschool homeschoolers in the country. We have No shortage of co op options Yes. And social I have to turn down things because I know. I know. Next thing I'm like, oh my gosh. How did we how did I overschedule myself to that extent? My kids are like, it's too much. I don't wanna go play at the

Timmy Eaton

park with my kids. Of your kids right now? What like, they're

Jolene Fender

So my oldest is gonna be 10 in March, then 7 and 4, but 5 in March as well.

Timmy Eaton

You're in the magical time. That's It's the Oh, yeah. Because we're we're 10 to 19, and it's still awesome. But and secondary is cool. Like, I think I really wanna do something about that was my that's what I wrote my dissertation on. It was about secondary homeschooling. But I'm finding is a lot of people kinda stop when their kids go into high school. And I'm like, woah. That's like I don't know. Again, I'm biased, but I'm like, that's the wrong time to stop. And a lot of people think of it as a form of protectionism, but I'm saying, no. It's a way to just totally go off on all those skills that you've acquired instead of having that, deadened when you go back into the system. And so But, anyway, I've got my own thoughts on that. Hey. So what's been, like, reaction from friends and family with your decision to homeschool full on?

Jolene Fender

I think, generally my parents have always been super supportive. My in laws, Um, I think we're a little bit more difficult to convince because my sister-in-law has a PhD in education like yourself. So she has her own and she runs her business based on training new teachers. Oh, that's

Timmy Eaton

right. She was at the University of Alberta. Yeah. She was.

Jolene Fender

Yeah. Yeah. Friesen? Friesen. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton

I know that name. I must I know her

Jolene Fender

Friesen is a very Popular name out, like Okay. Like Manitoba and things like

Timmy Eaton

that. She was never at the University of Calgary?

Jolene Fender

No. No. She went to Edmonton.

Timmy Eaton

Okay. Because I did have a when I did my master's degree, I had a professor at that was a doctor Friesen. But anyway.

Jolene Fender

I think she was Leftbridge and then Alberta Okay. And then U of M. Or is it U of M? No. I'm thinking my husband. My husband went to U of M, but, yes, Edmonton. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton

Yeah. U of A. That's cool. Wow. So and then friends, and they just opened and

Jolene Fender

They're you know, I have friends that are on the PTA for the public school and they're always like, Jo, you need to come back. You You're taking a good Family away from I know. You know? And I'm like I'm doing what's best for my family, and it's right now, this is what we're doing. But, yeah, I feel very confident about our situation. I will say I get lots of messages, DMs from people that are struggling because they can't convince their spouse. And I think that's the hardest part. I'm very thankful that my husband is like, number 1, I trust you. Yes. Number 2 I know that I we share the same vision and values when it comes to what the education Rhode looks like. But I have a lot of friends that are Yeah. Just they are trying to recreate school at home because their husband's I need to see Proof. I need to see a product at the end of the day. What worksheets did you go through? What like, or that they'll put so much pressure on themselves that They have to do it better. Their kids need to be Oh, that's tough. That need to, if we're pulling them out of a school and we're, like It's a big sacrifice. I know we are in a privileged position to homeschool to begin with 1 parent at home. But for a lot of us, People choose to live more simply, smaller houses that kind of thing just so that they can work on Yeah. 1. But some sometimes the spouse will put a lot of pressure on that parent that is, The main. The principal home school. Educator. Yeah. Because they'll be like, I need we need to show that we are doing better than what they would get in the public school system, which I think is just a complex beast because we're not just looking a child is not a test score. Right. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton

Well, The irony of that is the more you emphasize that, probably the I and I understand. Like, I'm not being unempathetic. I get it. But like, the more likely it is that you won't have the results that you want when you just don't pressure. And, re and it's not just it's not just willy nilly. That's research based. The outcomes, even academically, if that's what they're talking about, are so increased when they have this feast laid before them and then can just explore and really so that's oh, man. I'd love to I'd love to connect with those families just to talk to those spouses and be like, man, seriously, let's just start deschooling right now because just look at the statistics. If you want hard facts, look at the stats. It's just unbelievable the difference, but that's sad to hear. I I have that many friends kinda saying, I would totally do it, but I just it's not.

Jolene Fender

Or they continue to do it, and they just they live in with so much stress and fear because Yeah. They're still trying to prove it to someone instead of just seeing, and I think with I mentioned my in laws, but within a year, either they Stop caring to get into arguments with her. Or they just saw or they just saw the proof was in the pudding. They saw how my old my kids' vocabulary is insane for their age or, like, how they're Kind individual and how they can socialize. My in laws live in a in an over 55 building and how they can socialize with, like, All ages.

Timmy Eaton

All ages, ma'am. Why is that so universal? Why is it that I have these interviews every week, and it's just so universal. And I'll tell you the softest sell for sure is grandparents because when they see their grandkids And they're done trying to fit in, grandparents. They're, they're just real, and they're like, oh, that is the outcome we want. I and, again, I'm biased, but it is. It's true. You see how developed these kids are, and it just sells itself like you're saying. Not that you're trying to sell it, just that it's that I wanted to do if I can a kind of a rapid fire, ask you some homeschooling questions, and then just see if you can just let's just things you've really liked. Things I've really

Jolene Fender

liked About her. About homeschooling. And you've

Timmy Eaton

named a bunch. I'm just saying Yeah.

Jolene Fender

Those things that come to mind. Time. Quality time. I don't just get the end of the post school meltdown time. I get, like, All the good stuff. The good, the bad, the ugly, all of

Timmy Eaton

it. Yeah. What's something that you would say is something you have not liked or something that's been, like, especially challenging due to homeschooling.

Jolene Fender

Overanalyzing my decisions, Self care making sure that there's time for myself and like, coop mama drama.

Timmy Eaton

Oh, I oh my goodness. Tell me about that a little bit because that's that's interesting. Oh, like let me just guess. Like, Stuff like Yeah. You prepare like, a bunch of good stuff and then present it well at you know, based on whatever you're gonna cover in a in a gathering and somebody else kinda just wings it and it's not that quality or something like that. Or

Jolene Fender

It's I don't think it's so much like that because I wouldn't I well, I wouldn't be the 1 to judge someone else if they just if that's their style. Yeah. I think it's more around I feel and I don't wanna generalize that moms, but mostly moms. There's a sprinkle of dads here and there, but mostly moms, it's I think the parent that's the primary education or, the homeschooling parent Yes. Is very involved. We are, like, very involved people and we have to navigate not only mom Relationships, like adult relationships. because, you know, you might get along with someone and their the kids can't stand each other. Or You love the mom. You're like, you're trying to force a relationship with the kids that are like, it's not gonna work. I know. That's so true. So I think just navigating all of that plus having people have their feelings hurt because they're excluded for Whatever reason because our co op is our co op grew so much. We had to kinda close it down and really shift The No way. The ex yeah. Because it was open at 1 point, and it because of my Instagram platform, a lot of people were finding us that way. Did you start the call off? I did. Yeah. I did. Oh, cool. Along with another 2 moms at the beginning, we were like, let's start meeting at Park will do a little activity, and then it just grew

Timmy Eaton

To how many people ish?

Jolene Fender

60 or 70. Wow. So it just got it just got big. It got big and then, You get so many different people that can bring enriching Yeah. Things to a group because everybody has different skill sets. That's We decided to make it it's secret on Facebook, can't find us but it also it allows me to kinda focus more On my social media and the support I can bring there to the homeschooling community versus the 1 in person, Because I I honestly, I can't do both. It's almost impossible.

Timmy Eaton

No. It's too much. And you're trying to homeschool. You're trying to homeschool. Cool. So That too. That too. And so with that idea of coop and so is it important in your guys' situation that you do that you are finding like minded families for your kids to associate with in that way.

Jolene Fender

Yeah. I think it was, like, difficult at first because, like, When we started we started meeting people in person. We are we're secular homeschoolers. Just to find people that A lot of the main the very established classical conversations and all the co ops that are Already very established. We're all Christian based and it didn't quite fit in our mindset. That's part of the reason our co op Started as a secular coop in our area and it's STEM based. So we did it like we do a lot of Nature thinks everything was meeting outside, which was great for co op reason for COVID reason at the beginning. Yes. But, yeah, I think it just allowed us to also like, find confidently like, a lot of secular families who homeschool because of the pandemic, but we We continued. A lot of us continued. Yeah. And

Timmy Eaton

what's cool about that for listeners There's to know is that there's this idea that there's just a type of homeschooler. But the fact is when you do the research, they always break it into 2 2 camps, to ideologues and pedagogues. And even that I'm always so reluctant to categorize because the fact is every family is unique. And what it does, it affords any family the opportunity to pursue education how they want. I love that there is a variety and that it lends itself to any family situation, and it's awesome. Now you mentioned self care. Can I ask specifically, what do you do for self care? Like, how do you replenish? How do you I always use the term fill your bucket. How do you fill your bucket? And then maybe what's your husband's role in that?

Jolene Fender

So I was a college soccer player and I always had running as so I've been playing soccer, uh, but we we just go seasonally. Twice. I probably do 4 months a year or so, 4 or 5 months of playing soccer, but I run. I'm primarily Running. Yeah. And doesn't matter. Running inside just doesn't do the same for me. I I need to just go outside. I think it's a and you live in North

Timmy Eaton

Carolina now. That's awesome.

Jolene Fender

Yeah. I just went this morning, and it was, like, just perfect. I had a lot of stuff. You get used to it. You'd be surprised.

Timmy Eaton

I grew up in Chicago area, and I loved it. In the summers, it was so humid, and I loved it because you could go all day in humidity.

Jolene Fender

Yeah. It's extra sweaty in the summer, but, Yes. But, yeah, definitely The valuing that, I get a sitter that helps me to get runs in, especially in the winter when it's dark in the morning and dark at night. But my husband plays hockey. He's good old Canadian, so he plays Yes. Twice a week. So we really find we carve out the time for our own self care, our stress relief. So there's a mutual respect in that sense

Timmy Eaton

because we're all kids are observing that. I love that modeling for your kids.

Jolene Fender

yeah. My kids are into ninja warrior and skating. So

Timmy Eaton

Yeah. Awesome. Very cool. I know. Yeah. That's great. I started the rapid fire, but then you and then you said so many things. Yeah. Sorry. No. I love it. Let's Go ahead. Going on your back. Can you recall like, a defining moment where and that's hard to ask a homeschooling mom because there's probably tons. But can you recall like, a moment where you were where you're doing something with the kids, and it was just like a magical time. And uh, you're like, this is why I'm doing this, man. Oh my gosh.

Jolene Fender

There's so many. I know. That's hard to ask. I think what I've noted because I see those little moments of magic constantly, and it's the connections. I don't have to ask what did you learn at school? We were do you remember that time when we read this book, or do you remember when we met this person, or do you remember this field trip? And we are connecting it all together, and They'll randomly talk about something. And I like, my 4 year old, we went to DC last week, and he was I didn't know that he retained anything about the White House at all. It was like that just went poop over his head. But then he was talking about the White House and where the president lives, and I'm like, These are all things that we are connecting together, and we're so well ingrained in this. But, yes, it like, I will say just connecting those dots constantly in our day.

Timmy Eaton

Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. And like you said your 4 year old is just so used to that discussion in his home. And isn't it so cool uh, Uh, for you, Jo, and other moms that like, you're the 1 beholding all those moments. I just love that about homeschooling that, you're not like you said, you're not going, What did your teacher get to see so exciting about your learning? It's no. You got to behold that. And so Mhmm. That's awesome. What's up? Can you describe a typical day if you if or routine. And and, again sometimes people feel like that has to be structured some of it. But I'm just saying, what's a day like in the Fender home?

Jolene Fender

We are pretty active. So we do I don't feel so bad to have my kids in a lot of different things because they're not in school. So we like, my oldest re really thrives on having friends and all this stuff. So she has an art class. She has like, art class. She has writing class. She does ninja, Um, and then we have co op activities. So, like, For all my kids, we generally try to do we'll have 3 days outside the home. We're also in scouts, Like a navigator scout group to the homeschooling family style so all my kids can be in it. You're probably out of the house either doing a field trip, meeting friends for book club, meeting friends for whatever other reason, 3 days a week. Awesome. And the other 2 days we tried to be home, my kids are early risers.

Timmy Eaton

Oh, really? Yeah. What time do they go to bed at

Jolene Fender

night? 8. 7 38. They're usually in bed. They go to bed earlier, But they're up early. Sometimes we end up doing we get our math done. We get a math game in the morning before we even leave the house to go, like Awesome. Do 1 of our group activities. So I would say yeah, we try to do like, 3 and 2. So we don't have I don't we're very unschooly in the sense that We don't have structured things that we need to do. We like to I like to mental checklist, my math, My writing, some reading, at least daily, and everything else is like gravy. So that's why sometimes we just squeeze them in the morning with Again or something.

Timmy Eaton

And it's and especially your children's ages. I just love that's how you're doing it. I think that's I think that's ideal. That's awesome. And when I'm just thinking of our situation right now. So our so we have 10 and 11 year almost 12 year old. And it's so funny because now that our kids are older, and so our our nights are so late. So that's you know? And because we homeschool, we do everything together. And so our kids go to bed at 11, 11 30 every night. It's just Okay. And if back in the day, it was they were going to bed by, 9, 8 39 or something, but I'm saying way back. So now it's just I don't think we'll ever get that back. So I always I always admire when people can get their kids down that early.

Jolene Fender

But and you they don't have to wake up early. The high school kids here the school starts at 7 30. Yeah. Yeah. At least they can sleep Dan,

Timmy Eaton

no. That's a really good point. Talk a little bit about self directed learning. And Jo and I were talking a little bit beforehand about the self driven child, which my wife is reading now, and I think Jo has read before. It's just so good to to really put your kids in and self directed learning is kinda like the word the term critical thinking. They're actually awesome, but they're used so often that they lose their meaning or something. But what does it what does that mean for you, self driven learning?

Jolene Fender

So I think I kinda look back at, like, how I did my schooling. And I came into college When, you you're left to your own where you have to start to learn Yeah. On your own. You pick your own classes a little bit more. You're a lot more self directed and I feel like that curve got real stiff fast for me. Mhmm. Because I was used to okay. I like, my mindset because I'm a perfectionist. I'm gonna Call myself a reform perfectionist, but I would have the mindset what does the teacher need me to answer? Like right? So that I can get the a that I need or that I'm picking a bird course just so that I can Bring up my average or whatever it is. But I think preparing my kids for that mindset, why do I have to wait till they're 18? Like, why can't they just learn to be self directed? Yeah. Learn to find something To do when they're bored because, like, when you let them be bored, it's amazing. It's amazing what they do. They make a lot of messes. They make a lot of messes. You do not wanna be a clean freak in a house full of self directed learners because it's like the 4 year old got into the glitter. Why did you have glitter in the first Please. I don't know.

Timmy Eaton

That is so true. Yeah. No. That's awesome. I love it. And I've said this so often in these episodes. But what the research shows is that homeschools are so prepared for post secondary learning and career because they they've been nurtured in self directed learning, that's very common among homeschool families. That's excellent. You talked a little bit about philosophy on screens, and is there anything else you would say about screens and how you use them? I think you kinda talked about that. Especially, I love what you said about just doing that with your kids and then and not not like making them feel like, oh, these are bad, but showing them the good and the bad and just and be able to, it behold you know, witness that together and navigate that as a family. Yeah. I think

Jolene Fender

it's like I don't wanna make it taboo screens. I don't wanna call create a negative, And a negative idea, I guess. Uh, just mindset around them because I do feel like there's a lot of good things, but it's like Teaching them to pick the good stuff and even showing my so my oldest, I pay her for reals that she, Participates and then stuff like that. She's very she's is this a paid promotion? Am I gonna get money for this? Like She's your

Timmy Eaton

entrepreneur. That's right. Yeah. She

Jolene Fender

totally is. But she will be, like we will watch some reels, and I'll show her look. Some other people I follow, it shows us what's happening with AI and people are creating a whole online persona that is not real. Especially having girls, I want to show them that, Yeah. These filters people are using, I don't use filters and just to show, people are meant to have pores. You're meant To have the colors on your skin.

Timmy Eaton

Like That's really cool. I love that.

Jolene Fender

And I think it's just important that If I can be the 1 to show her those things, she won't, like they will seek them out on their own. They will find them out on their own. So I'd rather be the 1 to At least have some amount of conversation before it's like she falls into this information that she can't really process, or she doesn't feel comfortable enough to come to me to, ask.

Timmy Eaton

Yeah. That's great. I definitely commend that. I think that's such a Great idea and good for kids. Um, Couple more questions if you're okay, and then we can start bringing it together. But What's something you feel like and this is hard to ask sometimes because people don't always wanna answer this because they feel shy or something. But what do you feel like you do really well? I think in the homeschooling

Jolene Fender

world, I'm saying. I think just seeking out the natural curiosities. I will model finding this interesting bug. Yeah. Just showing my enthusiasm to like, wonderful things because I think there's so many amazing things in the world that we can learn from, that we need to learn to appreciate so that, when we're gone the kids can really appreciate the natural world and Be their own little conversation not conversationalist, but conservation. Yeah. Help me out with the

Timmy Eaton

English word. Conversationalist. That's good. Yeah.

Jolene Fender

Sure. Yeah. So I think just Showing my natural drive to learn, to be constantly learning. I show them that I'm learning new things. I'm learning how to use Different programs. I'm teaching myself how to like, needlepoint and just Yes. Things. We don't need to be, in school to learn something. We can learn everywhere.

Timmy Eaton

Yeah. I love that. So just engendering that curiosity, and that word keeps coming up. Curiosity is I it's I think that's what this is a lot about. And so, um, what's your greatest hope for your kids from their learning and the lifestyle you've chosen?

Jolene Fender

I just hope that they're always gonna foster a love of learning. They're gonna learn their whole life. We don't stop learning after we're out of school, and I hope that for them, and I hope that they're happy.

Timmy Eaton

Yeah. That's awesome. Very well said. And And I love how it is. It's that simple. It's I just want them to continue to love learning and, it which is so interesting Because when you think about, like, how simple that is and then all the things that could get us overwhelmed or, uppity about where they're at and compared to other kids and all this stuff. And it's just man, we just just step back and think, what is this all about for me and my family? And then you can be at peace and be like, it's all good because we're doing that. And too often we're worried about outcomes. And, what's interesting to me also is, there's just so much that shows that the focus on testing and taking tests and test taking doesn't really matter that much. And so the these kids it's good for them to kinda take an ACT prep course or a CLT if they're gonna do that or Whatever it is they're gonna do, but the fact is just by their love of learning, and they just do fine when it comes to university at least. Mhmm. Can I just ask maybe 2 more? I we didn't really talk about, like, where do you go when you're deciding what curriculum and what The materials you're gonna use, and I know you take this especially at the ages of your kids, you're not so concerned about like, oh, rigid math something or whatever else. But, like, Where do you go or where do you anticipate going to find materials and what they're gonna learn in the future?

Jolene Fender

In the future, it's it's hard to tell exactly where their interests are gonna lie in the future. A lot of what we do is Seek out the information once we like, I just expose them to a lot of different things. We do a lot of strewing. We do a lot of books, and then I seek out the information. And tailor it to that. Yeah. And then I find a unit study, or then I find the field trip that we need, or then I create a club with our coop that Is gonna my oldest wants to do her own book club. She wants it to be self directed. So it's just the tweens, and she they get to pick Their books and their activities, and they're gonna meet at a coffee shop, and we're gonna hide in the corner and have our own coffee.

Timmy Eaton

But, like she's going places, man. There's no doubt.

Jolene Fender

Yeah. She's either gonna be a business owner or A superstar. It's gonna be, like, 1 or the other. That's so cool. Yeah. So it's just more of Continuing to listen to what they want. And if 1 of my kids wants to be more structured in the future, then I'll find The more structured aspect for them. But as of now, they're still young and, they It's going well.

Timmy Eaton

And you don't seem that you don't seem too overly concerned about that. You're just you just know that you'll just approach it when it comes, and you feel confident to just find what they need. Yeah. And

Jolene Fender

I I know how quickly you can learn something if you're motivated to learn. I shared this on my Instagram months ago, but when I was in college, I had to take a chemical thermodynamics class. And my teacher, I just Could not get on board. It's just not great. My professor was anyway, long story short, it was a 40 percent, 60 percent kind of break off in the grade. So the 40 percent was for the midterm, and I bombed it. I had never ever failed Like a test before. And I really I failed it. And I was so demoralized. Like, It completely shook my My confidence that I stopped going in the class. And I when I came home, I had a week long before my Second to last this 1 was my last exam, this exam. And I just basically came out to my dad, and he's, he's a math teacher, but I'm like papa. I really messed up, and I told him the story. He's okay. Give me your textbook. I gave him my textbook. He's give me a couple days, and then you and I, We're gonna we're gonna learn this. Oh, cool. We came back 2 days later, and then we were every day at Tim Hortons. We were, like, 5 hours a day at Tim Hortons, and he taught me the whole class. I went to write the exam. Went really well. It was, like, 4 questions. Those Yeah. Everything. 4 questions. I felt good. Got an email from my professor. A week later, he's I need you to come in the office. Went in the office, and, obviously, he showed me my grade. I had a hundred percent on the exam. Like, how Are you like, you had mhmm. You had 38, A hundred. Can you explain? Obviously, you thought I cheated. So I told him the whole thing. It's I know. So that's just to show I was motivated to learn that class even though I was not into it because I did not want it to affect my final grade. I did not wanna Failed the class. So I was highly motivated to learn, and I got it done. So I think part of That mindset has allowed me to let go a lot of the insecurities I have around concepts in math that maybe my oldest is not really into Because she's more of an artist and but when it comes to, like she will do all the mental math you Me too when it comes to, like, how much profit she can make on this product that she's making. So she

Timmy Eaton

will learn the math. That's because it means something there, man. That's awesome. What I love the best about the anecdote you just shared is just the time with your dad. That's just so cool. And that really is I've said often I feel like The homeschooling is not the right word and for what we do, and people are doing this whether they're a homeschooler or not. People are in employing principles of homeschooling, like, all the time, and your dad obviously was doing that with you even in the college years. So that's so cool. Mhmm. 2 more questions if you're alright with it. What are your thoughts what have you thought about transitioning from primary to the youth years with your kids That's approaching in a couple of years. What are you thinking about?

Jolene Fender

Yeah. Yeah. I think there will be more uh, classes. I there is a big You're even in the secular side of things in our area. It's very homeschooling friendly, so even the museums have classes During the day Yes. For that will be more more, like, tailored to what my kids Wanna continue learning so I see more of that. But, also, a lot what happens a lot with high schooler homeschoolers here is that they do A dual enrollment with the community colleges? That's what my kids do. And you can right. And you can do 2 years, and those college credits can be transferred on to a UNC or NC State kinda thing. So you can transfer to that 4 year college university status. And I believe, and I might be wrong, but I don't think they even have to write their SATs if they go that way. Is that right? Basically Yeah. Because I think you just basically skip over it. You're transferring those credits.

Timmy Eaton

Like UNC are open to that right now? Yes. Yes. That's

Jolene Fender

so cool. Very,

Timmy Eaton

Super cool. That, man. People don't know. No. No.

Jolene Fender

No. It's yeah. That's what a lot of Kids do here. If they continue on to the college route, they will do those college credits, and you can transfer them over to another to 1 1 of the big colleges student colleges.

Timmy Eaton

When I hear stuff like that, I just cannot believe how much that reaffirms the decision to homeschool because I'm like, wait. So you can just Be with your kids all the time. Totally enjoy the learning experience. Skip all the drama that a school would, bring upon your family and whatever else. Not that it's all bad, but there's a lot of undesirables. And then you're in control of what they're learning and all those things. And then it's not a it's not a big deal for university entrance. And so it's just like to me so And I guess Yeah. People some people are like, yeah. But it's not that easy just to be able to homeschool. And that's what I'm trying to help people see that you really can. You can, or at least more people can know the option of it. So that's cool. And how did you know all that already?

Jolene Fender

Because I obsess over things, and I read a lot online. And I spend a lot of time on message boards, and I I connect with a lot of homeschoolers. I consume a lot of podcasts, so that's why I was excited to see some new material in our my podcast, Library because, I was listening to a lot of the same creators, so it's kinda nice to see a shift. It's becoming a lot more Popular. But, yeah, it's I don't know. It's it's really it's been great. I just it's weird to really shift from seeing we put our kids in school, and that's The school's job to really taking that on, and I feel so connected as a family. And I feel like there's just such a culture and disconnect especially in the US like, over schedule them. They have to do all the things. They have to be in competitive, like travel soccer. By the time they're 6, If they don't do that, then, they're not gonna

Timmy Eaton

have a wet weather. And whatever.

Jolene Fender

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's like, why? It's so much stress. No wonder we're all stressed

Timmy Eaton

out. No. And hold on to that because that does become we're seeing that too, and so it's just it's so good to teach him Mhmm. The right way to do it. What would be your counsel to families that are starting and they're just totally overwhelmed? They're like, man, I don't know if I can do this. What would be your what would be your message to them? Like, how do I do this, and where do I get stuff? What would you tell them?

Jolene Fender

I would tell them to come to my Instagram because I share a lot of things on there. Yes. Yes. Indeed. So I will say like, I have a list of podcasts. That's what I usually send to people reading anything by John Holt. We were talking about holding on to your kids. Like, It made me think of 1 of my favorite books. But uh, Gordon Newfeld. Yeah. Gordon Newfeld. And Gabor Mateo. Yeah. That's right. Awesome book. Yes. Reading, researching, because all that will reaffirm your Your gut feeling, but also gain confidence that this is the right thing. You are you're gonna be okay. And if even if you don't have all the answers, You are going to figure it out. You are not alone in this. There's just plenty of people that have walked ahead of you, but, also you know your kids better than Any teacher ever will. Mhmm. And you will figure it out, and they will be okay.

Timmy Eaton

So good. So good. And maybe the sister counsel to that the Idea of read through those things is there's no rush. Man, there's no rush. And depending on what level of your and I would say it doesn't matter what stage your kids are at. There's not a rush, so take your time. Whatever you're gonna spend time studying and reading you have time to make that up. That's 1 of the beauties of homeschools. You can do things so quickly. And totally tailored to your kids' interest. So it's awesome. What are what is what are things that you would wanna hear discussed on a podcast like this. Like, What would you what would make Jo Fender go, oh, I'm I'm listening to that podcast on

Jolene Fender

homeschoolers. Yeah. Interviews with grown homeschoolers. I think a lot of us have, fears. Oh, but How are they gonna turn out? I remember I can't remember which podcast it was, but they had a number of more grown homeschoolers come in. And it was, like, just Amazing to really hear someone that has lived through the whole thing. I have personally like, 1 of my closest friends in our Co op group is a second generation homeschooler, and it's just wonderful. I love her so much, and I love her energy. Lived experience. Yes. And it's like you are, like, top notch human. You are a top notch human it gives me faith that This is gonna be

Timmy Eaton

good. Yes. No. That is very that's so wise. I love that. I love that response. Thank you. You Thank you so much for taking time. was really fun for me. And so like, every 1 of these interviews is so enjoyable because there's just this like mindedness, and I've I always learn something, and every family is unique. So thank you very much for taking time. Can you tell everybody where to find you and especially Instagram and how to connect with Jo Fender?

Jolene Fender

Great. Yes, I'm on uh, at little fenders. So it's basically my little kids. My last name is Fender, so at little fenders. @littlefenders And that's across all the platforms except TikTok. Somebody took it, so there's dot between the little and the Fenders @little.Fenders, but I'm primarily on Instagram. My d I'm usually pretty good at responding to my DMs, so I post a lot of reels. So you're welcome to Go in and find information. I post on games and books we read and resources that will help you on your homeschooling and unschooling journey.

Timmy Eaton

Excellent. Thank you so much again for taking time. That was Jo everybody thank you. Thank you. That wraps up another edition of this golden hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it if you would take a minute and give us a review in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it, and thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.