This Golden Hour

72. Marlene Peterson and Libraries of Hope

• Timothy Eaton

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In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Marlene Peterson from Virginia. Marlene is the founder of Libraries of Hope and The Well Educated Heart. Marlene, a mother of nine and veteran home educator, emphasizes the importance of heart-based learning in home education. The discussion delves into Marlene's personal journey, her educational philosophy, and the founding principles of her organizations. Tune in to discover how a focus on relationships, the arts, and living books can transform your approach to homeschooling.

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Libraries of Hope
The Well-Educated Heart
The Well-Educated Mother’s Heart Podcast
motherofinfluence.com


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Marlene Peterson:

What is this normal education that we do that we're, pouring facts into their mind? Couldn't we do something better for them? And so it really made me ask in earnest, what is the purpose of education? That's what I say, being restless. I think it's good because. You look for something different in what we're doing, and we've very much become a society of the purpose of education is to get a good job and make a lot of money. Yeah, and that wasn't going to work for them and so really the conclusion I've come to is we are much better served to have the purpose of education to teach our children to live that's why home education makes a difference, because we can do things in our home that they can't do in public schools, and we can make a difference and make a change.

Tim Eaton:

Hi, I'm Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six and doctor of education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out. But people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling. And homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today and enjoy this episode of this Golden Hour Podcast as you exercise, drive, clean, or just chill. You're listening to this Golden Hour Podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Marlene Peterson from Virginia. Marlene is the founder of Libraries of Hope and the Well Educated Heart. Marlene, a mother of nine and veteran home educator, emphasizes the importance of heart based learning in home education. The discussion delves into Marlene's personal journey, her education philosophy, and the founding principle of her organizations. Tune in to discover how a focus on relationships, the arts, and living books can transform your approach to homeschooling welcome back to this golden hour podcast today we have with us Marlene Peterson coming to us from Virginia. Hello, Marlene. Thank you for being here.

Marlene Peterson:

Hello, thanks for having me.

Tim Eaton:

Yes, indeed. We're so grateful. Just a little bit of introduction Marlene is a mother of nine and she is the founder and creator of libraries of hope the well educated heart She also hosts the well educated mother's heart podcast And there's so many other things that I'm going to, we're going to get to. So I'm just going to let you, if you don't mind giving us a brief biography of yourself and just telling us a few things, and then we'll talk about some home education.

Marlene Peterson:

Sure I was born in Utah, grew up in Southern California, and went to BYU, graduated in Child Development and Family Relations, and I always tell people maybe you've heard this before I had children, I had nine theories and no children and now I have nine children and no theories. But I picked up a lot of theories and my real education to courses happened in the laboratory of my own home. So my husband and I are celebrating our 50th anniversary this August.

Tim Eaton:

Wow, congratulations

Marlene Peterson:

to your best friend. And he's been a cohort in all of this. And just truly appreciate his support and help and I'm just very ordinary, you know, just plug along and do the next thing. And I love working with the mothers that, that I've had the opportunity to work with over these last years. As Libraries of Hope took hold and has grown in unexpected ways. And what else can I tell you?

Tim Eaton:

No, that's wonderful. That's a wonderful introduction and biography and congratulations for, that's just amazing to accomplish 50 years together.

Marlene Peterson:

It's getting more and more rare, isn't it?

Tim Eaton:

Yeah, it is actually. Unfortunately. And how many grandchildren do you have?

Marlene Peterson:

We actually are flying out to Utah in a couple of weeks to welcome our, oh my goodness, I would get this wrong. I think he's our 22nd. Wow. And actually of our grandchildren, 18 are girls and it's just been the last few that we're seeing. Finally getting some man children in here. So our youngest daughter has produced a man child, which is a rare occurrence in our family.

Tim Eaton:

Yeah, because you have eight daughters and one son,

Marlene Peterson:

right? Wow. So we do girls. We do lots of girls.

Tim Eaton:

Yes, indeed. And I come from, I was telling you before I come from a family of nine children, I'm the eighth of nine and it was five girls and four boys.

Marlene Peterson:

I had all brothers. I love that. I have all these girls. I always said I had my sisters as daughters and yes, they feel like sisters. We love them.

Tim Eaton:

Is anyone out near you or is everyone scattered around?

Marlene Peterson:

We've been luring them out here. We've actually got a good number of them out here, at least in North Carolina. I have one daughter that's a few minutes away from me. So I have some grandchildren right here, got several down in Raleigh area. Excellent. spread out Chicago, Utah when moving to Arizona. So it gets harder. I always told him to stay close by. I told my oldest daughter that just stay close by. We were living in Utah at the time. And of course she married a man and moved to Florida and it disrupted the whole thing. We did home education. In fact that's really my story is that I've always been really restless about education. I loved learning. I loved learning growing up, but I hated school. And so when we started having children, it was like, trying to find what is it that we wanted? So we public school, chartered school, Private school, homeschooled, online school, distant learning unschooled. We did all of it. Yeah. And you maybe have heard me say, I guess we did it right because all nine of our children have graduated from universities, several with advanced degrees, but but always that restless feeling that there was something missing. And so what we did learn is most people are concerned about getting their kids into college. And I can tell you there are many paths. To college. They're all great. My daughter that probably did the least amount of schooling while she was home went on to get her joint law and MPA degree. And you just, you never know, but you never know. And again, you don't know. And my other daughter, another daughter, I thought she'd never go to college, but then as her sister started graduating, she says, Oh, I'm going to go. And she put herself through and we're really proud of her. But but really When, what happened is when our youngest daughter was getting ready to leave home about 20 years ago I had a friend and maybe you've heard the story that invited me to help her with a little school in the slums of Nairobi, Kenya. And I never got to go over there my daughter went over there and did some work, but when I look at those pictures and see those little faces of these kids that, a lot of them were orphans, barefoot, hungry, and there they were sitting on those benches in this makeshift classroom with tin walls. The chiggers in the dirt floor and they were hungry to learn. And it was like, what are we doing? What is this normal education that we do that we're, pouring facts into their mind? Couldn't we do something better for them? And so it really made me ask in earnest, what is the purpose of education? That's what I say, being restless. I think it's good because. You look for something different in what we're doing, and we've very much become a society of the purpose of education is to get a good job and make a lot of money. Yeah, and that wasn't going to work for them and so really the conclusion I've come to is we are much better served to have the purpose of education to teach our children to live I guess that's what I said. The art of living. I just happened to run across a quote from Charlotte Mason and it said that she had a A future teacher come to her on her first day at Ambleside and Charlotte Mason asked her why she was there and she replied, I've come to learn to teach and Miss Mason said, my dear, you have come here to learn to live.

Tim Eaton:

And wouldn't

Marlene Peterson:

that be great if that's what was school was you have come here to learn how to live. And so that kind of launched everything else that's followed. And it hasn't always been the way that we're doing it now, and I think we can change it. Governments aren't really interested in changing it that way, but that's where it comes back. I'll bring back your question. That's why home education makes a difference, because we can do things in our home that they can't do in public schools, and we can make a difference and make a change.

Tim Eaton:

I want to come back to a couple of things there. And I love that quote by Charlotte Mason. I think I've said this many times, but I think that we don't have the accurate word yet because I don't think homeschooling really does it justice or home education, and I think it's what you're saying. It's living as a family in the world or something. I don't know what it is, but it's like learning and living is what we're about. And so I'm cautious sometimes to use categorical words because I don't think that they do justice to what we're trying to get at So I didn't know that though. I thought so tell me your first exposure then to home education specifically, and I find this common thread with people that I interview that they have questions or there's something that they're not totally filled with regarding the way education is going in their family. And so what was your first exposure to homeschooling and how you would define homeschooling? And then what was the kind of the The route that it took from there.

Marlene Peterson:

Our first experience was let's say our fourth daughter when she hit first grade. I just she was just not happy, and it was, I didn't know what I was doing. And back then, homeschooling was what weird families did. It was not mainstream at all. And when I went to the school and said I was going to bring my daughter home, they thought that I was, absolutely crazy.

Tim Eaton:

Were you in California at the time?

Marlene Peterson:

No, this was in Utah. And and I muddled my way through because I think a lot of homeschool moms do this. They're trying to, Reproduce school at home. And you set up the classroom and you get the worksheets and it doesn't work at all. So that was short lived. But then over the years, I would pull kids in and out, and we kept trying things. We try, I think, Oh, this is the curriculum we'd need. And we try a little bit and it just never worked. Now I understand why it didn't work. But at the time, you just, you do the best that you can. I think. For a lot of our kids, the thing that worked best when they got into middle school and high school is that our schools were open for them to be able to Do classes at school that they wanted to and be home. Some of their friends didn't even know they were homeschooled because they saw them at school, they were there for choir and fun and then they come home and we do the other stuff at home. I, it made me laugh in junior high school. I remember my daughter said one of her friends found out she was homeschooled. So how does that work? Does your mom stand in front of you all day and teach you? And she goes, no. She said, we learned from books. from books. This novel idea that you could learn from books. So that just makes me laugh.

Tim Eaton:

Oh, yes.

Marlene Peterson:

I would say we never got the homeschool thing straight. If anything, by the end of the time, and like I said, I had different kids that we did all kinds of things. And that's what I love is that we have the freedom to test this and test. And like one daughter, she'd been home for a couple years and she was afraid she was getting so far behind and she was in junior high and I said, you can go back to school. And so she did. And she came home the first day. She was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so far behind, just crying. And so then I said keep going. And a couple of weeks later, she came home and said, Oh my gosh, I haven't been in school for two years and I haven't missed a thing. And she came back home. It's she just needed to go that was Meg, and she would be number seven, seven in the mix.

Tim Eaton:

Did all of your children experience home education at some point?

Marlene Peterson:

No, not all of them did. I'm trying to remember which ones. My oldest daughter went through public school all the way, but she actually, she has six daughters from five to 19 years old and she's homeschooled them exclusively. In fact, they are my well educated heart guinea pigs.

Tim Eaton:

We must be at a very similar stage because we have children from about 11 till 20. And so six children and we've done it. We've only done home education. And so two are out serving missions right now. And so we've, and they just went straight through. And

Marlene Peterson:

Wow. I love that, we worry so much about getting it right, but I think my, I think age has taught me that so much of the things I worried about really don't matter at all,

Tim Eaton:

I know. And I usually leave this question until the end, but because you're saying that now, what would you say? If you had three or two or three minutes with a young mother who was worried about that, which is so common, and I understand why, a lot of times people will say, mothers will say, I'm okay with the years up till about junior high, but then I'm worried about, can I continue to provide the education and the experience they need for life after homeschool, life after high school. And so what advice would you give. Just like now, like you're saying, man, if I would have known what I know now, I wouldn't have stressed so much. What would be your advice or counsel to new homeschooling families?

Marlene Peterson:

I would say relationships is the most important thing. Quit stressing about the academics. I ask people all the time how much they remember from school and they say like 97 percent of it is gone. It really is all the facts and things you learned it's gone. And how much better would you be served to have spent that time? Enjoying, reading books together and having that relationship and doing real things, going to museums and symphonies and letting your child take the lead in the things that they really want to learn and that they're interested in. High school, especially that's like the last luxurious time in a child's life that they can just devote to really learning. And if you lit that fire of desire they will learn so much more given the freedom to learn than they will, if you give them a curriculum. I liken it, I think it was Abraham Lincoln that said, if you. Tell a man that he has to bail 10 bales of hay, he'll bail 10 bales of hay, but if you take him out to a field and say you get to keep everything that you can do, you can get a lot more. And like I said, my daughter that graduated law school probably did nothing in high school. Everyone else was sweating the, AP classes and making sure they were doing this and that. And she was reading, she was reading and if anything, I think my kids have told me that what that did for them is they weren't burned out on learning. And when they got to college, they love to learn, they were ready to learn. They weren't sick of it. They were ready. So yeah, just quit worrying. And These days, colleges are looking upon homeschoolers with really friendly eyes. Yes, they are. And there are, like I said, if you've got your sight on college, there are so many paths. Yeah,

Tim Eaton:

we're finding, We're finding the same exact thing as we, with our own children, first of all, but then as the more people we talk to, we're finding that same thing, that colleges are more open, but I love that council of relationships, the focus on relationships. And it's interesting that you say that because. The more I interview people I'm expecting, sometimes to hear some real academic concern. And I'm not saying that people are throwing out academics but that it's not the principal concern. And yet academics are, flying high. Like they're doing very well with people that are focusing on relationships and experiences. And the academics come with that. So what an amazing by product from focusing on the right things. Now, earlier you said, what you had learned about curriculum what did you figure out about curriculum in hindsight that you're like, man, if I could go back, it would be a little different.

Marlene Peterson:

Curriculum doesn't work. There is that element of compulsion. I use the example of the escape room. I don't know if you've heard that, where you go into an escape room and the thrill of it is that you're solving the puzzles to get out of it. And when you get done, it's Oh, we did it. And I say, what if you went into that same escape room and someone said, Oh, Open the top drawer. Here's the combination and now open this door. And here's what you're doing. No franchise of an escape room. And I look at learning that way. The curriculum somebody else has asked all the questions. Someone else has decided what they want you to learn. And it just doesn't work. It's very deadening, and you may get through it long enough to pass the test, but it's going to be gone. It's just, unless you have a, unless you have a reason to want to learn it, and actually an outlet to use it it's just wasted time, really. It's like dump truck loads of field dirt. We want to give our kids the gold nuggets of learning, and that happens when you give them some freedom. To actually pursue and I know that's a challenge. We live in a day of electronics and if these kids are hooked on the, the fun of games, it's hard to get them interested in other things. But, I see a lot of moms, they take those away and their kids come to life and

Tim Eaton:

start things

Marlene Peterson:

that they love to learn.

Tim Eaton:

Yeah. I love to hear that. Now, when you say curriculum or it doesn't work, you're, are you, I'm just wanting to clarify that. Cause the way the approach I've taken is. Is don't feel confined to one, pick from here, pick from there, pull from wherever, but don't feel that you are, that you have to do it this way or complete something. But the idea that you're using, for example, our family has often used teaching textbooks for math, but then it's a resource. It's not like we're focused on the curriculum for that. Or what would you say to that?

Marlene Peterson:

Yeah, I guess I need to back up a little bit because there are certain skills that a curriculum will help. So math skills finding a book that can help take you through, although I would say I think there's more success when that's delayed until the brain is better able to take it in. I think again, we burn little brains out so they hate math. But if you can make math that's something that's useful and they love it, then yeah, finding, teaching, there's so many different programs. Find the one that works for your child to get through. So that's true. I would say. Finding something to teach grammar. We spread grammar out over years. And yes, you can learn what you need to learn in a very short time once you're motivated to do it or do it within what you're already doing, make it part of the lesson instead of pulling the lesson out and beating it in. So that's what I say with curriculum history, I, subjects like that, I think there's just better ways to learn it than to use somebody else's.

Tim Eaton:

Yes. And like you referred to Charlotte Mason and her concept or her principle of living books to me is beautiful and that's what we've implemented in our home. And I just, what you said about your daughter, like she just read and it's like you can learn from books. That, if that was the only way it would suffice and it would be amazing. And so I appreciate that.

Marlene Peterson:

There's a story of a man, I'm trying to remember his name, but he lived in a household where they were poor, and he didn't get, he didn't get to go to school, and he read to his grandma. He read to his bedridden grandma, and that's all he did for, all kinds of things, fairy tales, and classic, and history, just read and read to her. And never went to school and yet when he was in his 20s, I think he presented himself at a college and went on to graduate summa cum laude or something, go on to be a college professor, that, I think we just, we don't give ourselves enough credit. credit for our brain's ability to learn from books

Tim Eaton:

without somebody

Marlene Peterson:

telling you what you have to learn.

Tim Eaton:

That's so good. If somebody had asked you, they, or, if somebody says to you, Hey what would you consider one of the greatest challenges to doing homeschool? How would you respond to that? What did you come across that you would consider like a problem or a challenge or things that were, that kind of made it hard for you and your family and your context?

Marlene Peterson:

Oh, that's a good question. The challenge was, I was trying to find how school could work at my home. And the answer was, it doesn't work in my home. It doesn't. Now I could go back and do it over again. It would look like life. We're going to be living a lot of life and we're going to be reading a lot of books and having a lot of conversations and. And things like that. So really the challenge, the biggest challenge was I was trying to make something work that wasn't meant to work.

Tim Eaton:

Yeah. Replicating school you mix the

Marlene Peterson:

fear into it that everybody's saying, you're going to ruin your children. You're going to ruin them. And that's that fear. Oh my goodness.

Tim Eaton:

And again, you were doing it at a time when it wasn't as acceptable as it is today. It's the fastest growing form of education in the United States by far. And as public education sees a decline and I'm not comparing the two, but it just says something in Canada it's rapidly increasing. And so I just think people are asking questions and they're they're seeing some principles that they want Implemented in their own homes. And I think it appeals to them. What about successes? What comes to mind when you think of benefits. What do you see as the greatest benefits or pluses to the homeschool? Approach

Marlene Peterson:

back again to relationships. At school, their primary friends are outside family. When you're home together, those become your friends. And I can't remember the question you asked me, but the benefits

Tim Eaton:

are the pluses

Marlene Peterson:

and also that that our kids learn. There is more than one way to learn. I think that's one thing it did is open them up that there's a lot of ways to learn. Um, I think if you public school, there's some things at home that you need to balance it out with and and that's true with everything, but I'm so grateful that homeschooling is an option and a lot of things that our friendly governments all have things that they require of us and jumping through those hoops can be a little bit daunting for a lot of moms. But but I found, as I've watched with my own daughters, that even, so my oldest daughter, there in the military. So they've lived in a number of different states and she's lived in some of the really hairy ones as far as requirements, but when it comes down to it, you usually can satisfy what they want and still do what you feel that you need to do with your family.

Tim Eaton:

Yeah, that's well said. I appreciate that. Like I think it is that you said that balancing. I'm just wondering with your experience and all that you've done with libraries of hope and well educated hearts and what do you see is like the current, what are the current discussions focusing on? What are the current concerns from homeschooling mothers? And you'll probably see things differently because of what you are doing with your business, but, or I don't want to I always hate to call it a business, but your work is the, I think it's the better way to say it. What are the current issues and what are people talking about? What are they concerned about? What are they enjoying? Whatever comes to mind from all of that?

Marlene Peterson:

I think what their concerns is, what they always have been that, we've got this one system where they expect you to be on level. They expect your kids to be reading at this age and they're terrified. And I'm presenting this other way of learning, which is, it's, It is mind and heart, but there's a lot more heart to it that mind and that's really scary for them, and it's scary for a lot of dads, because, they think, our neighbors are reading at this level, and we're not, what are we doing, and it's frightening for them, but I've been doing this enough years now that more and more women are willing to trust the process because they're saying that those who went through it, they didn't ruin their children. Their children are thriving. There's a light in their children's eyes. They love to learn and and they do fine in school. And when they, they go on to college. I had one mom in She was just terrified that her kids, her girls weren't going to be ready for college and because she hadn't really done anything, in the standard things, and they went on, got scholarships, graduated their mothers, they have children, so the challenge is just to let go of the fear and to know for yourself, what is it that matters to you? You have to answer that question. Yes. And that gives you the courage to go against what society's telling you, you should be doing and to just be at peace that yeah, this is what matters to me.

Tim Eaton:

Yeah. It like, man, I see, I'm taking the approach in the last year or so, as I talked to people, it just I wish they could just. Trust what I'm telling them and saying, no, like this works out really well. If for one thing, if they looked at the research, like the research I did my, I was able to do my doctorate degree and wrote my dissertation on home education and the research is just. Very clear about the the not only the academic, which is, was a lot of people's initial concern, but just relationships and the development of character and the cultivation of the whole person. All of that is accomplished most effectively right now through home education. And I know people probably say of course you're biased, but I'm going, no that's what the findings are. And but more for me, that means something, but it doesn't mean as much as We are very normal parents. Like you said, you're ordinary and. And our kids are doing fine and they're thriving and they're socially accepted and acceptable. And that's always a fun discussion. You can

Marlene Peterson:

find socially awkward kids in public school. There's no corner on the market in homeschooling. I always say it's

Tim Eaton:

apples and trees.

Marlene Peterson:

Yeah. It's true.

Tim Eaton:

It's

Marlene Peterson:

true.

Tim Eaton:

Yeah. Let's shift a little bit if we can to libraries of hope can you just tell us how does, how did this all start? Just so that anyone in my audience that's not familiar with you will say, Oh, that, that's interesting. How did it all start? And we'll move to what you're focusing on right now. And again, I think we, I mentioned it before, but I'd love to hear about what's happening with the learning Academy that you're doing.

Marlene Peterson:

Let's see, it started back when that little school in Africa and and I very soon came to understand that the thing that was missing was the heart. And, if I could just quickly define what I mean by mind and what I mean by heart. Because those words mean different things to different people. When I'm talking about the mind, I'm looking at all the things that can be tested and measured. Facts and information. I'm looking at skills that can be developed. Things that you could put on level. But when I'm looking at the heart, I'm looking at the things you can't measure. How big is love? How big is joy, hope, desire, dreams? Those are all heart things. And it's such a simple premise, but the heart is fed by the arts, you find the word art in the word heart, and the arts feed, you look at facts as being cold and hard, the arts can give the warmth to them, the story gives the meaning to the facts that you are looking at, the illustration, Gives you the understanding to some problem complex problem that you're looking at. Yeah. We've become very much. Mind centered system of education that we can test and measure. So we're worried about kids having reading skills, but we're not worried about if they want to read or if we've cultivated the desire to read things that are going to benefit them. We're focused on giving them writing skills, but we're not paying attention. Is there anything in their heart that they want to write about? There's nothing harder than writing an essay about Absolutely nothing, that you care about things and you don't care about it and the writing comes. So that's my focus is on the heart and the arts. And and that's not a new concept. I, if I give you, let me just give you this brief walkthrough.

Tim Eaton:

No, please do hard

Marlene Peterson:

education because it comes back to the question of what the problem is or what we're facing in education today. Go back to the late 1700s, an educator named Pastalozzi looked around, same thing, he said, we're focusing on the mind, it's coming off the renaissance, and everybody wants their kids to learn Greek, and their kids and the parents are absolutely miserable. This just isn't doing it for them. So he says there has to be another way, and his belief was it is for a long time the business of the heart before it's the business of the mind. And mothers were central to that because mothers are the ones that are best delivered, able to deliver this heart education. But even back in the 1700s we had the officials that were more interested in the test measure because he had a little school of about 50 orphans. And they came and visited one day and they said, Mr. Pastalozzi, where are your test scores? And he said, look around, the children are happy, they're engaged, they're teaching each other. And they just said um, you know, this is acceptable. And he actually died of a broken, I mean, he died thinking he was a failure. Has that mind thing, this is reason, this is what we need to have. So a man named Friedrich Probel picked up. The baton and also believed in mothers and he was in Germany and I realized mothers were too busy. They were trying to survive, trying to keep their family fed. So he noticed it was the older daughters that that had care of the little kids. And so he said, let's bring them, train them. So when they become mothers, they're ready to teach in their home. So he started the first kindergarten, which was a child garden, which was to raise up mothers who could teach their children. They said this is going to take three generations. And so he started, and it was working, and these little girls grew up and were mothers, and they got together with other mothers, and they were meeting in their homes and supporting and helping each other. And the German government got wind of it and said the only reason that these women are meeting Secretly, it's because they're trying to plot to overthrow the government.

Tim Eaton:

Shut

Marlene Peterson:

them down, broke Provo's heart. But these ideas were out there of this hard education, the role of mothers especially. And we find Charlotte Mason, Maria Montessori, we find Rudolf Steiner, the Waldorf method. And this was about the same time that the women's movement took off. And a lot of people don't know the women's movement was grounded in motherhood. And, with God or head and hearts within, they marched forth in the cause of home and humanity, and they were paving the way for mothers to do what mothers are supposed to be doing in the home. And in the 1888 inaugural address of Francis Willard, she said, learns the divine secrets of her powers, then will the blessed day of world peace come true. So here's this march, mother love works magic on humanity. And they started writing this golden age of children's literature is what I have focused on. This is where I've learned a hard education. These were mothers writing for mothers. These are mothers giving them stories to use in their homes and everything, literature and science and history, just fantastic knowledge wrapped in stories. And in fact, in the early 1900s, there was a revival in the art of storytelling in the homes, and it was the mothers that were learning this to be able to, to awaken desire in their kids by telling stories, and they started the Delphian Society, which was to it was a college level humanities course for mothers. So that their hearts would be full so they could teach their children. This great momentum going of mothers marching forward. Pestalozzi said, if it takes 300 years for my ideas to take root, it will have been worth it. And it's

Tim Eaton:

absolutely going

Marlene Peterson:

to happen. But then John, a man named John Dewey came along and had different ideas. And here's back the mind again, where he signed that document, humanist manifesto reason is our greatest hope. And by the way, there is no God. And he influenced education. We became very much a reason, a mind based test and measure kind of institution. Motherhood has been devalued with your God and the arts out of education. And so the interesting thing that happened Hans Christian Andersen wrote a little fairy tale, maybe you've heard me say this, where he tells what happens if the mind takes hold and you leave the heart behind. It's the Snow Queen. And he says, the world will turn upside down. That which was good is now seen as bad, and that which is bad is now seen as good. Every fault is magnified and every good is mocked. And that's our world. What do we need? We don't need more rigorous academics. We need more heart. We need more arts. We need more God. We need more mothers doing things in their home that they were always designed to do. And the late Sir Ken Robinson did so much to try and get the arts in the schools, and I was just reading a couple weeks ago that He just couldn't get headway with government and it was discouraging to him, but I think We don't need government approval mothers. You can do it. You've got everything you everything is delivered to your home You can do this Let's get the arts god back in and do what mothers have been designed to do and teach the heart of your children

Tim Eaton:

I love

Marlene Peterson:

there's the cause there's the libraries of hope there's It's a well educated heart. The mothers have influence and the whole package. No,

Tim Eaton:

That really is a very concise, clear foundation to, I feel like everything that you're doing but I, but that just resonates so completely. And you know what I had, the thought I had as you were talking was, we think that it's either or, but the fact is, as you focus on the heart and what is meaningful, I'm reading a book right now, it's called cracking the learning code and it is excellent and it is very research based and, but it is what it's finding and I think it's saying it and what you're saying in different words, it's saying if we are not finding what is meaningful, the brain does not care to remember it, you cannot store things. And so it is mind and heart. It, and so my. contention would be. I would say that as you do focus on the heart, the beautiful thing about it is that the mind will come with that, but if it's second rate, it's not because it's not one or the other. It is to me, if it's what we need to do is convince whoever needs to be convinced that no. If you have children and humans, Who are interested in what they're doing and loving it and caring about it. Then the other things come as well. Like you, the reason and the intellect, they're not in, they're not in contention with one another. They are working in a kind of a An ascending helix that just keeps strengthening, but you have to focus on the heart.

Marlene Peterson:

It's like saying, which is more important, the man or the woman? The answer is yes. They work together. They cannot work separately. It has to be in tandem. So I'm glad you made that a point. Because, sometimes people think that I am opposed to mine. No, we need our mind. We need reason. We need faith and reason. We need heart and mind. We need science and art. It's the two coming together, but it is the heart that comes first. The heart forms before the brain in the womb and, the heart learning, especially children under the age of eight. Neuroscientists know that Capacity to reason doesn't kick into eight. That means those first eight years, you have a child's heart that is open. Dr. Melheim that I told you about, he said, if you will give them rich music, listen to Beethoven, rich literature, rich words, instead of having a one lane highway, you're opening 10 lane highway, 10 lane highway of learning ahead for them, Take advantage. And, it's not. Like stuffing spinach down. It's stories. It's writing. It's picture books. It's music. It's all the things that kids naturally love. And yet we've got this kick of, oh, we've got to start academics early and earlier. You talk about this, the science and the research. Delayed academics, hands down, Finland is number one school in the world and they delay their academics till seven or eight when the brain is ready for it. And then yeah, bringing the mind was it Aristotle gets credit. People say she didn't really say it, but educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all. We need the two working together.

Tim Eaton:

Oh, so perfectly said, and I, yeah, I just keep coming back to it's not one or the other. They're they're together. They're one. And but the heart

Marlene Peterson:

first for a long time, the business of the heart and it will give life to all the mind stuff so that you'll want it.

Tim Eaton:

Yes. Yes, indeed. Oh, thank you. That was like so helpful and clarifying. Maybe just a couple other questions. How did your recent conference go?

Marlene Peterson:

So it's called the Bellarm Center for Artful Living, and we've got a whole bunch of things. If you go to our website at librariesofhope. com, it lays out all the pieces because people get really lost. We have Libraries of Hope, which is a ton of free resources. Free books, free things the arts that you can use a lot of resources. Amazing resources.

Tim Eaton:

I should just tell my audience like that, like amazing resources. So please visit libraries, hope. com

Marlene Peterson:

it can be overwhelming. Just, one, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? No one walks into the library and says, Oh, there's so many books, get me over here. You just take one off the shelf. You take your time. Just take your time. So Mothers of Influence was formed. We've got a community of mothers where they can come together and support each other. And so the Belmont Center for Artful Living, we wanted a home for our work, and we have this beautiful 160 acre property in in the heart of America, in Missouri now with beautiful ponds, and it's a place to come, and we especially wanted to bring our young adults step away from the world. For a few weeks or months or whatever they want to do and immerse themselves in this way of living artfully is the way I can put it. Right now we've got apprentices on property and they're taking care of lambs and digging dirt and, planning gardens. But at night they're singing around the campfire and singing in their learning poetry and reading books and stories together. So it's just a fantastic thing and we have. A campus that we are working towards. We have what's called Bellam at Home, which is a virtual platform for, we have a lot of teachers in there that are helping to teach music and art and things like that for, Children and that's generating the funds to be able to build this campus, that it's not meant to be a place where, you send your kids to school regularly. It's a place to come, be filled, go back to your community and, left where you are. What's the most

Tim Eaton:

direct place for people to go to find out information with if people are interested in that?

Marlene Peterson:

So the Belmont Center, if they go to, you pronounce it, it's B E L E A M E. That's French for beautiful soul. What a perfect word. We're building a beautiful soul. So bail on dream. org is where we talk about the center and a lot of the things. But again, if you have libraries of hope. com as your central station, that's where you can get to all the good.

Tim Eaton:

Yes. Yes. And there's a

Marlene Peterson:

free, there's a free introductory course called Catch the Vision. That's the place to start. It's 17 hours, don't do it in one sitting, let it unfold, because this is where I share what I learned from art educators, and there's one complaint that people say is when they get done, they don't know what to do still. Because this isn't about a step by step how to do, it's really thinking and learning. No, it's principles. Yes, it's principles.

Tim Eaton:

I like what you say. You say often, and I've noticed that you say, I am not here to tell you what to do. But to help you discover your own artist within, and then also just to say and I would say, I am trying to do the same thing. Like one of the most common questions I get, because our friends and people that are looking at a home education know that we've had children go from birth to university and that it works. And so they say what did you do? And it's not, I don't want to say it's the wrong question, but it is the wrong question. It's more what are the principles that I can take in and apply and implement in my family situation? Because my family is so unique from yours. And so I love that you say that. I'm not going to tell you what to do because how could I can teach you principles and then you need to catch your own fish, so to speak.

Marlene Peterson:

And it looks different in every home. People say, show me what this looks like. It will look different in your home than someone else's. I liken it that all the music in the world has been created from eight notes. You started with eight notes and look what happened. It's the same thing with this. There are basic principles and as you apply them, it will look different in every home and that's, that's the gift of an artist. This isn't paint by number. This is you understanding and then how about it?

Tim Eaton:

What do you say to somebody who's really adamant and they say yeah, just tell me what to do.

Marlene Peterson:

I just can't, sometimes they'll go away and then come back. I, that's not uncommon at all for someone to say they came back three or four times. Something keeps pulling them back. And then all of a sudden it's like the light goes on and it's different for everyone else. And that's really the scriptures. God doesn't have a step by step in the scriptures, but the more you spend time in it, the light starts connecting, the dots start connecting and you start to see things. You start to see things for yourself.

Tim Eaton:

Thank you very much. This has been a great conversation. I'd love to do this again sometime. What would be, like, if your parting words, what would be your final thought before you leave this audience? And I don't know if but my audience is typically, it's homeschool families, but a lot of times it's newer homeschool families that are trying to get started and feel confident that they can do it and that their kids are going to turn out fine and that they're going to be able to not get too overwhelmed. That's who I am speaking to most directly.

Marlene Peterson:

Just be patient with yourself. And I will say. All of the things that I talk about, they are for everybody, not just homeschoolers. You need this, no matter where, even if your kids are all grown up. These things are for you. What would I say? Robert Louis Stevenson, the world is so full of a number of things, I think we should all be as happy as kings. Go out there and have fun and explore and discover life is wonderful, learning is a joy, it's meant to, that is what life is, it's learning, experiencing try and let go of the fears. Look to people who are past that point. I can tell you again, most of the things you're worrying about really don't matter. Don't get caught. What is the phrase? Don't get caught. In the thick of

Tim Eaton:

thin things. Yeah.

Marlene Peterson:

Yeah. The thick of thin things. Just enjoy and relationships that Harvard study on happiness. The thing that they found was, it was relationships, that connection. You put that in, you keep that in place and everything else will be okay, really. If I take time, you may go through some bumpy, life is meant to be an experience. We learn by experience. So

Tim Eaton:

yeah that's why your

Marlene Peterson:

kids aren't done at 18 by the way, you know, I've only got one more year and it's I've got news for you. They're not going away.

Tim Eaton:

I think that's one of the most common things. My mother just turned 77 and I think she just can't believe that she's still mothers as much as she does with almost 50 grandchildren. And anyway it's going,

Marlene Peterson:

yeah, influences it done.

Tim Eaton:

Wow. You guys, thank you so much for listening today. We had Marlene Peterson with us. Thank you so much for taking time and I know you probably have a very busy schedule, so I appreciate you taking time. Thank you.

Marlene Peterson:

Thank you for having me.

Tim Eaton:

And have a wonderful night. That wraps up another edition of This Golden Hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it if you would take a minute and give us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.