81. Cathy Duffy and Cathy Duffy Reviews

In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Cathy Duffy from California. Cathy is a veteran homeschool mother, author, and perhaps best known for her prolific, thorough, and quality curriculum reviews. Cathy shares her extensive experience in homeschooling, discussing her initial exposure, challenges, and how she tailored education to her children's needs. We also discuss the evolution of homeschooling resources and Cathy's meticulous process of reviewing homeschool curricula, providing invaluable tips for new and seasoned homeschoolers alike.

Connect with Cathy
cathyduffyreviews.com

Resources
Konos Curriculum
The Nomadic Professor
Christian Home Educators Association of California 
Share Educational Services
Focus on the Family

Books
Better Late Than Early

This Golden Hour

Transcript

Cathy Duffy: 0:00

We never looked back. Wow. It was so good for us. It was not always fun, but. overall, there were so many great moments. By the time we hit high school, a lot of people were in those earlier years, putting their kids back in for high school. But I was looking at it and saying, it's just getting interesting. These kids have such great ideas and I love having the conversations. Why on earth? And I was doing a lot of teaching worldview. And I, they're just getting to, where we can get serious about this

0:32

Hi, I'm Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six and doctor of education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out. But people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling. And homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today and enjoy this episode of this Golden Hour Podcast as you exercise, drive, clean, or just chill.

Timmy Eaton: 1:26

You're listening to this golden hour podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Kathy Duffy from California. Kathy is a veteran homeschool mother, author, and perhaps best known for her prolific, thorough, and quality curriculum reviews. Kathy shares her extensive experience in homeschooling, discussing her initial exposure, challenges, and how she tailored education. We also discussed the evolution of homeschooling resources and Kathy's meticulous process of reviewing homeschool curricula, providing invaluable tips for new and seasoned homeschoolers alike. Welcome back to this golden hour podcast today. We are very excited to have with us Kathy Duffy from California. Thank you for being with us.

Cathy Duffy: 2:07

Oh, I'm glad to be here.

Timmy Eaton: 2:08

This is a definite privilege for me to be able to speak with somebody who has been around homeschooling for some time and had such extensive experience. I wanted to just share. So Kathy is a homeschool mother of three sons herself who are all homeschooled through high school years, right? And she's best known for her work as curriculum specialist reviewing homeschool curricula and resources, but also the author of several books, including the two volume Christian Home Educators Curriculum Manual, 103 Top Picks for Homeschool Curriculum, which is an evolving work, I know, and then Government Nannies, The Cradle to Grave, Agenda of Goals 2000 and the Outcome Based Education. And I want to talk about that later if we can. But Kathy has also authored many articles on a wide range of topics in many homeschool and education publications. Her free weekly e newsletter lets her readers know about her latest reviews, curriculum reviews, and she speaks at many homeschool conferences around the world. So that's quite the resume. So thank you for joining us. What would you add to that? Tell us a little bit about yourself, your family, and then we'll jump into things.

Cathy Duffy: 3:14

I'm traveling less, more online. Yeah, just life is still really busy. Yes. And traveling is not as much fun as it used to be.

Timmy Eaton: 3:24

It's not as fun, huh? I just and so is that accurate? Like you, you've spoken in like all over the world with homeschool conferences. Give us a taste of where you've been.

Cathy Duffy: 3:33

Hungary, England. I'm blanking out, yeah. Canada, obviously.

Timmy Eaton: 3:39

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 3:39

On a cruise to Mexico all over the United States. I'm sure over the United States. Yeah, not a lot of home school conferences internationally because they weren't happening. Yeah. All over the country. But I've worked a lot with They minister to families who are, missionaries to Eastern Europe, former Soviet bloc countries. I started going over there a long time ago and, I've been over there, I don't know, three times. But they do a wonderful service to, people in many countries, they come together for conferences. And so that was just a delight to be with those families.

Timmy Eaton: 4:17

Yeah, I just, I'm so excited to spend this a few minutes with you to really glean from your experience and especially. As I look at your reviews and one thing that we're going to get to for sure, but everybody needs to go to KathyDuffyReviews. com and look at all of her resources. They're incredible. So many free resources for. homeschool families and anybody else who's interested, but maybe I'll just ask you that right off the bat and then we'll organically have this discussion, but like your reviews are extensive. And so I definitely want to talk to you about that maybe at a later point, but I guess I'll just thank you at the beginning it's so helpful to read through. The reviews that you give, because it gives families and especially those who are more novice but anybody a very good idea of something that kind of aligns with their priorities and their purposes for education and living. And so helpful and what a trove I just can't believe how extensive your website is and all that you cover.

Cathy Duffy: 5:12

I do feel like my reviews do get long sometimes. They do. No, it's not. But that's good. But I've tried to answer the questions I have as a homeschooler, would this work for me? So it's what audience is it intended for, what, which children does it require a lot of direct teaching? How hard is it to figure out? Does it have any particular bent to it, point of view or something? How good is it? And then I'm not so much saying, yeah, this one's really great. And this one's really. Terrible, because most resources will be the answer for somebody.

Timmy Eaton: 5:45

That's right.

Cathy Duffy: 5:46

Something I might not like at all, perfect for somebody else. So here's the highlights. Here's who it works for, and here's who, maybe it doesn't.

Timmy Eaton: 5:54

But I like to hear what you think personally. And I think your audience does likes to hear, with, especially with your experience, not only homeschooling, but your experience reviewing, it's so good to hear. Somebody who's had so much experience to say, Hey, I really liked this. And I think this is a very good tool and you give so many details. And so I'm grateful that you make it that thorough. And again, I do want to talk to you about the process and dig into a little bit of how you do that. But if you're okay with it, I'd love to, for any of our listeners, I'd love to just spend the first a little bit talking about Kathy's experience homeschooling herself and then transition to her business. And when that came in, so how did you, what was your first exposure to homeschooling and how'd you get started?

Cathy Duffy: 6:33

Yeah, this is ancient history to your audience. Probably we started homeschooling in 1982 and There was hardly anybody I knew, over, those years when we started homeschooling, it seemed like there were only two families in our county who were homeschooling before that. And they were pretty radical, it was more the John Holt unschooling type attitude and or the people, we don't pay taxes. We hide from the government to, it was really underground.

Timmy Eaton: 7:02

Was that in California? That was

Cathy Duffy: 7:04

California.

Timmy Eaton: 7:05

Yeah.

Cathy Duffy: 7:05

And. So when we started, there were a number of families several families that started the same year. And I think James Dobson, Focus on the Family, had done a radio show, an interview with Dr. Raymond Moore, and these are names that probably people don't even recognize now, but Dr. Raymond Moore was talking about better late than early, don't rush your kids into teaching reading early, and don't worry about, they'll, developmentally they'll be ready at a certain time, and there were ideas, and they lined up well with the unschooling movement, and maybe that's, part of the why that just segued in early. So anyways, that was in the background. I was perfectly happy with what we were doing. Our boys, my eldest, he went through second grade before we started homeschooling. My middle one went to kindergarten and my youngest preschool he hadn't gone to preschool. We just, did things at home. And so I was happy. I had them in a a Lutheran school and thought things were going okay. My oldest was struggling a little bit with math. That's a whole nother story with learning styles and everything. But, but still I was happy with the situation. I was not looking for an alternative. But it was, okay, that this comes, here comes the religious viewpoint. God was putting things in front of me, just say, getting my attention of, look at this. And the one that really hit me where I said, okay, I'll look at this seriously. I was getting together with another gal. I used to do a lot of weaving and yarn work. And the only thing we had in common was this. I was going to get together over at her house. We were going to do some work. And when we were planning, we never talked about our kids. Never talked about schooling. This was not part of our, what we had in common. And she said, Oh, this gal will be over at my house. She's cleaning my house and she homeschools her kids. You'll have to talk to her.

Cathy Duffy (2): 8:55

And I was like, what? What?

Cathy Duffy: 8:58

Why on earth? Ended up talking to this gal and ended up going over to her house and looking at what she was doing. She had older kids and it was, but it was, God talking to me through her, just getting my attention to even consider this crazy thing. And my husband was really good about going along with it. And I had in my mind, because I didn't know better, that we'd homeschool one year and then I'd put him back in school for a year and then one school, one year in, one year out, just to make sure I had all my bases covered.

Cathy Duffy (2): 9:29

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 9:29

It's very silly looking back on it. That's exactly, that is really what I was thinking. And new homeschool families who come to it tentatively I get you, I'm, I was there.

Timmy Eaton: 9:40

So what was it? Cause you said you weren't really looking for it except for that it was being placed providentially before you but what was it about it that you were like, wow I, just

Cathy Duffy: 9:48

the freedom of it to be able to teach what your kids need to be on your own schedule. Because I was in a rat race of being in the car. My youngest one never got. a decent nap because of having to, drive three times a day. Sometimes even with a carpool that took out one trip a day sometimes, but it was like living in the car too much of the time. And then you're on the schedule for the school for, packing lunches and getting homework done and et cetera, et cetera. All of that stuff.

Cathy Duffy (2): 10:17

Oh, it's hard.

Cathy Duffy: 10:19

Yeah. And so when we started homeschooling, that was one of my first things of, wow, I feel like I've stepped off the treadmill there. That was a big change.

Timmy Eaton: 10:29

It was relieving.

Cathy Duffy: 10:30

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize how much it had affected us.

Timmy Eaton: 10:34

And so did you guys, was it the type of thing like you never looked back all the way through high school or was it in and out or how did it go? Oh

Cathy Duffy: 10:39

No. We never looked back. Wow. It was so good for us. It was not always fun, but. overall, there were so many great moments. That, yeah,, and by the time we hit high school, a lot of people were in those earlier years, putting their kids back in for high school. But I was looking at it and saying, it's just getting interesting. These kids have such great ideas and I love having the conversations. Why on earth? And I was doing a lot of teaching worldview. And I, they're just getting to, where we can get serious about this.

Timmy Eaton: 11:10

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 11:11

So that was a big deal for me.

Timmy Eaton: 11:13

I noticed among your reviews, a lot of your work on world view. And I love that. And I think that's so important and I'm right with you. Like I, I just did a recent post where I said, man, the worst time to put your kid back in school is during secondary. Just because it's not because it's terrible but it's because of how much they'd be missing out on and what they could be taking advantage of to prepare them for post secondary and career and life. Yeah. Opportunity

Cathy Duffy: 11:37

lost. I'm teaching the last year I taught a worldview class to my 13 year old granddaughter and I'm teaching world history to her and another teenager with a worldview bent to it. I'm getting to a second go around.

Timmy Eaton: 11:52

That's really good. Do your do all of your children homeschool?

Cathy Duffy: 11:55

I have three sons. Two of them have uh, One, does not. They're homeschooling, they're all

Timmy Eaton: 12:00

homeschooling. I am coming across that more and more, just the second and third generation home education. So how would you describe, like, how did your reasons for why you were homeschooling, how did that evolve over the years? Because when you started, it was unexpected. How did the reasons evolve?

Cathy Duffy: 12:17

Oh yeah, because I learned so much. Discovering the, just being able to teach the individual child to tailor what you're doing to meet their learning style needs and to just be able to adapt. And if you're, you're using this textbook and a piece of that and whatever to put it together with all the resources. And we didn't have the resources we have now. Not even close. We had to make up things. We were, I made up. Unit studies, I just, you're doing it all from scratch but I enjoy doing that. So fun for me.

Timmy Eaton: 12:49

That was obviously a foreshadow for what you've done with your, livelihood.

Cathy Duffy: 12:54

Yeah because I was always looking for something more, other things to use, looking ahead and then, I was writing up these little brief reviews in our newsletters that we were mailing out to people. Yeah, this is ancient typing up and mailing out. And the reviewing grew organically from that with, as I learned more, I'm just passing on more and gradually, you know, started shaping up into. A book first was a skinny little comb bound book, you know, and

Timmy Eaton: 13:20

yes, Yeah, because you started pretty early. You do the review thing, right? Because you started homeschooling in 1982, but the review started in 84 or something.

Cathy Duffy: 13:28

That's

Timmy Eaton: 13:28

amazing. So you really looked at the literature from the beginning and have seen it just evolve.

Cathy Duffy: 13:34

Yeah, and this came about because the second year we homeschooled, those few of us that were homeschooling, this was probably 83 or 84, I've forgotten. We said we need to just gather, and show our research of what we found, what we're using. And so I said, yeah, let's so anyways, we used our, we had a classroom that we used. for part of our church. It was, temporary. And so we did find one publisher basic education, who talked to homeschoolers and, would bring some stuff. But otherwise it was all just show and tell. And so we just set it up around the edges of the classroom. We just thought we'd have a half dozen people show. We had people lined up down the

Cathy Duffy (2): 14:13

road. I just, there

Cathy Duffy: 14:15

were. Oh, these people came out of the woodwork who were looking at homeschooling.

Cathy Duffy (2): 14:20

We had

Cathy Duffy: 14:20

no idea. And so then we started our next convention, a real homeschool convention the next year. Modeled it after the Sunday school conventions because I was involved with teaching Sunday school, running a Sunday school and said, yeah, so let's have some workshops and we'll have displays get a few publishers, have displays with, let's do it that way. And so that's how we started into homeschool conventions.

Timmy Eaton: 14:43

That's so fascinating to me because like you said earlier, we, we live in a day, our kids are 11 years old to 20. And so we've graduated about three. My son's kind of in his last year of home education, but which is interesting to say, cause I think it's a really a lifetime thing in a philosophy but And

Cathy Duffy: 14:58

graduation isn't always just a cutoff line. Exactly. Exactly.

Timmy Eaton: 15:02

Learn, learning just continues on. And I've always said that homeschooling doesn't really fit the, what we do, it's more like intentional parenting and intentional living as a family but you were really pre HSLDA times. And Brian Ray was just getting started with his research. So like, where did you go for mentorship and for protection and for curriculum? Like what, where were you getting, you were making a lot of it.

Cathy Duffy: 15:24

We were the blind leading the blind. We started Christian Home Educators Association of California probably. We had that group going until 84 when we started that first convention, real convention, but it grew out of our little group here that was, we were just meeting at the park and everything, but it grew from that. But when we founded that Mike Smith, who was one of the founders of HSLDA was in Santa Monica and he was on our board for Chia of California pretty early on, he was already involved.

Timmy Eaton: 15:56

So did you have anybody that like like this woman that you met to, that kind of got you started, was she like a mentor to you? Like always a step ahead? Or did you have anyone like that for you?

Cathy Duffy: 16:06

Her kids were teenagers. And she was doing something very different than what I ended up doing, but the rest of us found each other, we just found each other. Again, that's providential and we're always trading ideas. I met up with Konos Carol Thaxton, Jessica Hulsey, somehow we connected pretty early on, I sent them, middle ages unit study, I think I'd done, and, we just, they were putting together Kono's curriculum and I said, Oh yeah, so I'm right on board with you guys, Yeah.

Timmy Eaton: 16:36

So was your background was especially, you continue to do reviews. Was your background in something, education or literature or or is it just that just became naturally throughout the years too?

Cathy Duffy: 16:47

Yeah. Just, I love to learn. That's it. That's all you need. My background. I was studying textile science.

Timmy Eaton: 16:53

So yeah. It's funny because I just read this certain writer and he said, my, my qualifications are my results. And and I think that definitely would be the case. I mean, Your reviews are amazing. And so frankly, I'm not too worried about your background because the results are amazing. And so in those early days, how did you like, that's overwhelming. We have so many resources today and that can be overwhelming too but really homeschoolers who start today. In the beginning times in the eighties, it was even risky. It was way risky even with your own families, with a law even potentially. And so today we're so protected. There's still definitely misconceptions that are around, but that was such a weighty decision that you guys made a very courageous thing to do. How did you fill your bucket when things were so like, how did you make sure that you were replenished and able to go back in each day? And how did you replenish and self care in those days?

Cathy Duffy: 17:47

Not well, I overdid stress myself out too much. Yeah, but Yeah, there was so much that was rewarding, and I was so committed to it. You know, we just, we're doing this. This is, this is what it is. But I had good friends. I guess, you know, That's the other end of, there were, just good families that we connected with. There was one family that started in, they were from our church, They started the same year we did and their kids were about the same ages and they ended up, they were like extended family and they still are all these years later

Timmy Eaton: 18:20

but

Cathy Duffy: 18:20

having that one other family there, cause I'm having a bad day. I'd call them and say, Hey, can we go to the park? It's that's that was my lifeline.

Timmy Eaton: 18:28

That makes all the difference.

Cathy Duffy: 18:30

Yeah. Yeah, I forget that was so important and other families were, involved, but they were the ones, if something would have happened to us, they would have had taken our kids vice versa. It was that close.

Timmy Eaton: 18:39

And I imagine that you were also seeing the results or the effect or the or the lack of influence in of other Influences like school and other things that you were seeing your sons develop and you were going, we like the way this is going. Yeah. How did you have the confidence at such an early stage of homeschooling to go through the high school years? Still today, so many people opt not to do the high school years. How are you confident to just go through those years and prepare them for career and university and stuff like that?

Cathy Duffy: 19:09

I knew that. That legally we could do it that, and by that time, things were more stable and we had junior colleges we could draw on for classes and in California, I know this, maybe gets a little too much into the nitty gritty, but we had that. Proficiency exams that they could take when they were 14 or have completed their sophomore year. And the state would then consider them a graduate of high school. And they could then work without they have to get work permits when they're in high school. Yeah. And they could take the college classes as regular students. And so that was our, always our goal to get them through the proficiency exam. And then they'd start taking JC classes. My, my older son was, right on schedule. My middle son was always two years ahead of schedule. So he was, about doing the same as my older son.

Cathy Duffy (2): 20:04

So

Cathy Duffy: 20:04

He took the proficiency exam really early. He was finished, and over at the junior college I just. 16, 17. He was really early He was a couple years into the junior college. He was tutoring. He got a job tutoring. How old subject they did history. History was his. Oh, awesome. His love, they didn't people he was tutoring had no idea. Didn't, wasn't obvious what his age was. He was

Timmy Eaton: 20:30

really young. that yeah.

Cathy Duffy: 20:31

It was the opportunities by the time we got to high school. They had so many opportunities. We just found different things to hook up people and opportunities to hook up with that you couldn't do if you were doing regular school. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton: 20:44

There's no way you can do those things.

Cathy Duffy: 20:46

Yeah. So we had all this freedom and didn't want to sacrifice that and also wanted to teach worldview. It was like yeah, we're just, the plus is far outweigh. Any of my concerns, the concerns didn't seem relevant.

Cathy Duffy (2): 21:00

I

Cathy Duffy: 21:01

had been more politically active, especially in educational issues to the late eighties, early nineties. That's, when I wrote that government nannies book, I think it was 95. And so I knew a lot about what was going on in the schools and what was not, what was not happening educationally. I didn't have any, big ideas that they were going to learn all this wonderful stuff if I sent them.

Timmy Eaton: 21:25

Yeah.

Cathy Duffy: 21:26

Yeah,

Timmy Eaton: 21:26

so I'm gathering that it wasn't that hard of a decision. And I think what happens today is that. A lot of homeschool parents aren't as aware, like you're saying, it's because it, even today, it's even a trend to homeschool in a lot of areas. And so people aren't as educated in the history and in the evolution of the movement. And we're not compelled to know that much because we've just enjoyed. The freedoms of homeschooling, whereas people in the early days, they fought for it. Yeah. And and we can't really be naive to that, that we, it still is going to be a struggle to have the freedoms that we want in order to educate that. We want to just a couple more questions about your own experience homeschooling, and then we'll transition a little bit. But what would you, what did you remember as like your biggest challenge? What was the hardest part for you in homeschooling through the years?

Cathy Duffy: 22:09

That's a hard question because it would depend day by day, it's more just, the days when things weren't going well.

Cathy Duffy (2): 22:16

Yeah.

Cathy Duffy: 22:17

And you can get discouraged, but it was like to be, if there's a bad day, the next day it'd be better, and, Yeah.

Timmy Eaton: 22:23

And that's hard to do. When you're looking back over so many years, it's hard to say, Oh, this was the hardest thing, but nothing stands out to you is just Oh man, that was a hard part. Like either the, some common things today would be like especially probably the most common thing I hear from homeschool mothers is, am I going to ruin my kids? It's just like just the the self doubt I think a lot of time is what plagues a lot of homeschool mothers.

Cathy Duffy (2): 22:45

Yeah.

Timmy Eaton: 22:46

And then there's other things like social influence and, people always ask about socialization, but today I think the most common answer is there's too much. We have to cut back.

Cathy Duffy: 22:54

Yeah. Stay home. Maybe a little bit. Yeah. But we even then we could see it because we had time to spend in all these different, types of groups. We did Boy Scouts and. They're, boy, boy run troops and they really, ran it. And, so that was a lot of exposure to the rest of the world because, our guys, they're out there off, with, the rest of the world, doing stuff, and, they learned a lot through boy scouts though. And I love the merit badge. We incorporated merit badges into our homeschooling because you get the merit badge counselor through scouts to work with you. We did a botany merit badge for part of our high school.

Cathy Duffy (2): 23:32

Awesome.

Cathy Duffy: 23:33

Yeah. But they developed the ability to lead. They were not followers, none of them, and and that's not their nature, they just stepped into leadership and it was like almost by default that other kids were not being raised to operate independently and responsibly. And I saw this with other homeschooled kids too, that they just gravitated into leadership. And. They would carry on conversations with adults, and look them in the eye and, just they had no problem. They were not peer dependent. They didn't always, yeah, the downside maybe, they didn't always get, especially got older the way peer groups operated. Because they didn't spend a lot of time there.

Cathy Duffy (2): 24:16

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 24:17

Boy Scouts taught them a lot, but with some of the sports we did sports, I was just talking with my sons, I've forgotten, we'd done sports through the city and through YMCA and we did soccer one year and we did a whole lot of putting it together ourselves. Yeah, but not we didn't do the. One's where you're doing the practice and the games every day of the week type stuff. We just, I said, no, we're going to have family time, family meals are important and we're not sacrificing this. So that put a damper on some things.

Timmy Eaton: 24:46

Yeah. No, that's a struggle we have today. Like I have, we have six children and the majority of them have played sports and they've actually played them through the school where we live. And You're right. That's it's probably our biggest challenge because the one thing you were trying to escape was the school schedule and now you've just tied yourself to the school schedule. And so that's something we, we have definitely grappled with over the years. What did you see as like the role of your husband through all this?

Cathy Duffy: 25:10

He, while he's working full time, so he would work, he did the Boy Scouts with the kids, the, it's the stuff that he could do on the weekends, in the evenings that fit his schedule. But yeah his time was so limited, but yeah, no, I appreciated what he did do. It was what he could do. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton: 25:27

Do you remember did you, was it helpful for you to be able to voice things to him and have him listen and talk about the concerns with the kids and the decisions you were trying to make? And like how crucial or essential was his support of what you were doing?

Cathy Duffy: 25:39

It was absolutely crucial, but he didn't, He wasn't he didn't to think about curriculum or, he just wanted to see the results and stuff. I did more bouncing off that other, my friend that, family, she was the one who, we'd bounce back. We all the time, we were just, all the time talking homeschooling.

Timmy Eaton: 25:56

And she could relate so closely to what you were experiencing. Whereas, A husband who's not doing it, it can't relate as much but can at least encourage. I just find that a lot of the women I talked to there, they just need the husband to genuinely say, you're doing a great job and this is definitely worth it and keep going and

Cathy Duffy: 26:13

pay attention to what the kids are doing and make comments and to them

Cathy Duffy (2): 26:18

and

Cathy Duffy: 26:18

then giving you time off. And just to be able to go in a room and close the door for, Half hour.

Cathy Duffy (2): 26:23

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 26:24

I feel like heaven sometimes with nobody needing you for just a limited time.

Timmy Eaton: 26:28

Yeah.

Cathy Duffy: 26:29

That kind of thing is just, critical.

Timmy Eaton: 26:31

And you said that two of your sons are homeschooling right now they're families. So with them in mind and just a general population, what would be some counsel you would give to homeschool fathers today and homeschool husbands today? What would you counsel them?

Cathy Duffy: 26:44

Oh, I think the situation's so different now, sometimes you're stepping on toes. Some of the dads are doing the majority of the homeschooling, so yeah, it's all different.

Timmy Eaton: 26:54

So it depends on the family.

Cathy Duffy: 26:55

It depends on the family. It depends on, and a lot of people have extended family now who will help grandma, grandparents or whatever, different people.

Timmy Eaton: 27:03

Yeah. Like you said, you're teaching your granddaughter and friends and my, my, my wife's mom teaches our kids stocks and Farsi and so she does quite a few things with them, so it's excellent.

Cathy Duffy: 27:15

Yeah. I just I'm just thinking about my kids. My one son has his own business and his schedule has gotten flexible enough now that he can do a significant amount of the teaching. And he's doing worldview with

Cathy Duffy (2): 27:33

awesome. Very cool.

Cathy Duffy: 27:35

So he's doing the subjects that he wants to do, with them. And that's exciting to watch. And I've, we've compared notes on worldview. I'm sure you have.

Cathy Duffy (2): 27:43

Yeah.

Cathy Duffy: 27:44

My other son is less involved. They're working through, his wife's working through a charter school, and so he's got less input on what's going on. He helps run the Iwanos program at their church and does sports with the girls, yeah.

Timmy Eaton: 28:01

No, I appreciate what you're saying. It really is. It really is so unique to the situation. And I know there are probably, some fundamental principles that can be applied in all situations, but it is so subjective because our families and where we live is so different the way we're going to apply that. If somebody came up to you and said, Hey, Kathy, with all your experience, learning, not just through homeschooling, but like reviewing so many resources and curricula. What counsel would you give to new homeschool families that are just overwhelmed and like, how am I going to do this? What would you tell them?

Cathy Duffy: 28:32

Nothing's going to be perfect. You're experimenting, you're learning, especially the first year you're learning. So don't get too hung up on it. You'll figure it out as you go.

Cathy Duffy (2): 28:42

I

Cathy Duffy: 28:42

encourage people Not to spend too much if they can, do it less expensively and play around at, and as they figure out what works with their family.

Cathy Duffy (2): 28:51

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 28:51

And there are more free resources available now to, try to use free resources if you can.

Cathy Duffy (2): 28:57

But

Cathy Duffy: 28:57

then also being realistic because sometimes free means more work on part of the parents, and if you don't have the time or the energy, then find something that's not going to. Require that.

Cathy Duffy (2): 29:09

Yes. Again,

Cathy Duffy: 29:09

there's lots of those resources too, but, yeah it's being realistic not overwhelming yourself, not buying ahead, not, not over committing, not trying to do too much. I remember sitting down one year and listing all the subject areas we were trying to cover and it was just ridiculous, you want to do everything with your kids and you can't, focus, what's the most important. You know what that is.

Cathy Duffy (2): 29:33

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 29:34

Know your hierarchy. So when you run out of time and energy, it's okay. If you, yeah, you know what, you're not

Timmy Eaton: 29:39

gonna, what you're not going to cover and that's fine.

Cathy Duffy: 29:42

Yeah. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton: 29:43

Yeah, that's great counsel. That's really good. I thought we could transition a little bit and talk about Kathy Duffy reviews, of course. And how did you get started with that? Like, what was the evolution of that? Just take us through the kind of history of it.

Cathy Duffy: 29:55

I was always reviewing products because I was interested. I was always looking for things, always doing that. Once we got past, the newsletter, I started into making a book, I just, it was the books for, while I was doing every few years doing the books and then the internet came along.

Timmy Eaton: 30:12

That changed everything.

Cathy Duffy: 30:13

Computers too. Good grief. Doing, the first book was typed. That's just, that's a hellish project.

Timmy Eaton: 30:19

That is hard to fathom today.

Cathy Duffy: 30:21

And there was a guy who, a homeschooling dad who came alongside me. Way early, helping me to put together a book on computer, and this is before we could send files over the internet easily, and there was FTP, you could transfer. I didn't know how to do it, and he would try to give me instructions to send him stuff, because he didn't live close, he was an hour away, and he'd come up to my house and he just, he was just a godsend

Cathy Duffy (2): 30:51

in

Cathy Duffy: 30:51

helping me, get things computerized and then the website came later. Yeah, we've gone through, just growing with the technology. Little by little putting it together and now, two of my sons, one is a website designer. The other is a programmer.

Timmy Eaton: 31:07

Oh, nice.

Cathy Duffy: 31:08

So I parcel out stuff to both of them.

Timmy Eaton: 31:11

So when I look at your website I'm just in awe at, like I said, the extensive nature of it in the wide, array that you're doing, are you able to describe what's your method of reviewing? Because it's so thorough, like, How much time does it take? And some curriculum is, not it's not so light. And like you said, little by little, I know this isn't done in one year, but man, it is I just don't think people understand what resource they have at your website.

Cathy Duffy: 31:37

Yeah it's an accumulation. Some of the reviews that are up there are from, way back. But now it depends on the product now because so many things are online or hybrid type things. So the process varies depending what it is. And some of them I really have to slog through the whole thing, which I hate to do because generally I can, work through, I can get a good enough idea by, going through bits and pieces of products. But and it's something I just want to go all the way through because they're so great. So interesting. Because they're good. Yeah. Because I'm learning. Oh, this is worthwhile. What's

Timmy Eaton: 32:12

an example of that? What is one? Can you think of one that you were like, Oh, this whole thing is good. unless you're reluctant to say, I don't want to don't answer anything you feel like is not going to be good, but can you think of something that was like, wow.

Cathy Duffy: 32:22

Okay. Here's a nomadic professor's history. Here's a university professor and a high school teacher who have come together. The university professor makes videos, he goes around the world, makes these videos and he does teaching. He also, sometimes he just lectures, and then the high school teacher, he seems like the one who's pulling all the pieces together, but he also creates what he calls document studies. They combine. The videos with a lot of primary source documents and a lot, so they're reading and writing a lot of analysis and thinking. And one thing I love about this course is they present topics as questions and then they explore it and then the documents especially, but, they get you into thinking about different ways of looking at. The topics instead of coming, here's the point of view, everything's interpreted to this lens. They're teaching people how to think,

Cathy Duffy (2): 33:21

and I just

Cathy Duffy: 33:21

love this, especially with everything so polarized, and I'm watching more and more of the history products being, designed for, right or left. Yeah

Timmy Eaton: 33:29

ideology, way too

Cathy Duffy: 33:31

ideological, and this kind of approach to think about history, to explore ideas that's where we have to go. So I love what they're doing there. And they're slow getting those courses out because there's so much work put in. It's

Timmy Eaton: 33:45

vast.

Cathy Duffy: 33:46

It's good. They've got American history so far.

Timmy Eaton: 33:50

And are they targeting a homeschool audience or are they targeting any audience?

Cathy Duffy: 33:53

There, it's, I don't know if they're using it in schools too, but homeschoolers are, Yeah they're targeting homeschoolers for sure. What have

Timmy Eaton: 34:01

you noticed? That's something I was wondering as I was looking through your reviews, and over the, over time and just like recently, I was thinking what, how does Kathy see as like a difference between this is homeschool curriculum versus Other curriculum, like a public or private or whatever, can you distinguish something that is like very specifically oriented towards homeschool philosophy?

Cathy Duffy: 34:23

Yeah, I was writing up a review a few weeks ago and I put in there, it was classroom oriented and they said we were, we actually write for both, but it comes across, for, first priority classroom,

Timmy Eaton: 34:37

I see,

Cathy Duffy: 34:38

but more and more of the publishers who are selling the homeschool markets grown, there's been this change where now they have changed either. They produced. Homeschool manuals, some of the bigger publishers that can afford to do both. So they, scale it all down for the homeschool parent, or they accommodate, they have notes in there, for homeschoolers, duh,

Cathy Duffy (2): 35:01

yeah.

Cathy Duffy: 35:02

Because usually homeschooling parents don't need, there's so much. Accommodation to different situations and things that is in those manuals for classrooms that we just don't need

Timmy Eaton: 35:12

well and I'm finding as I talked to families and just in watching my own children like you, you use curriculum, but totally as a tool and as a resource. And then when you've gotten what you want out of it you. Move on. And I think, I feel like, the school way of thinking through things is complete the text, move on to the next text. And like, how do you respond to people that are saying like, how important is curriculum anyway? Is, what about just reading the best books? Yeah. Is that sufficient for curriculum? Obviously it depends on the subject matter, but how do you respond to those types of questions in books? And

Cathy Duffy: 35:45

Yeah, that's it. You never required to finish a book because remember back when you were in school, how often did you finish a textbook?

Cathy Duffy (2): 35:51

You just

Cathy Duffy: 35:52

not expected to, but I encourage parents to think about it from a goals perspective, first of all. What do you want to accomplish this year? Awesome. And, just getting a scope and sequence from one of the publishers, or several of them to compare, whatever. Get an idea of what they're covering and then you should know your child well enough, at the beginning, that's harder, and you'll Play with that. But after you've been doing this a year or so, you've got a pretty good idea of what they know. And so you can look at a scope and say, yeah, let's, these goals, I'll adopt these goals. They make sense. Or, you have some of your own, like when I talk about worldview, that's not on the scope and sequence. And you build that in, whatever your priorities are.

Cathy Duffy (2): 36:32

Yes. Like for the worldview,

Cathy Duffy: 36:34

that was my core perspective for high school. I used history textbooks. But in history was our thread for teaching worldview, but we jumped off from that to teach economics and literature and science, not all of science, we did separate science courses, but science history, literature, sociology. philosophy law, government, all of these other topics, art. So I knew where I wanted to go and then I just chose the resources that got me there. Now I understand that sounds overwhelming to a new homeschooler, you just choose something, you go in, you try it and does this have what I need? What's my child lacking? What are they struggling with, and then you go find something else and do it. But it doesn't all have to be right now this week.

Timmy Eaton: 37:18

And like you said, like you you learn as you go. And I think that's hard to fathom when you're just starting, but like it really does. This is incremental and you, when you get into your own groove, you know what you like and can discard or keep whatever. Yeah that's excellent counsel. I think that's really good.

Cathy Duffy: 37:35

In the curriculum manuals, I've always done stuff with, charts to help people figure out what style of education works for them. Because some people gravitate toward classical education or unit studies, or Charlotte Mason is probably one of the biggest.

Cathy Duffy (2): 37:49

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 37:50

And some just want traditional type things or, independent study, whatever. And figuring that out is one of your jobs that first year, because you might not know what you prefer until you've done it. And you can try, work with the curriculum manual, what I've got there to, try and figure out in advance. But, you try things out and you see. because using real books. For history, that's scary for some parents. What if I don't cover everything and I'm, yeah, you might not, but it depends what level you are. I think you need to do comprehensive history at some point or other, make sure you're really covering a lot of detail.

Timmy Eaton: 38:27

And one thing I always ask her or emphasize, and I'm wondering what you think about this, but like I, depending on your child's interests, and you do definitely want to have a. a wide variety of education and spread the feast like Charlotte Mason talks about for your children. But at some point you begin with the end of mind and say, for example, your two sons that went into um, IT or computer programming, at some point you say, Hey, what are your interests? And then can't you work backwards and say, okay, so based on this probable or potential path, what should I focus on, especially in the secondary years to prepare me for that path?

Cathy Duffy: 39:04

Yeah, definitely for a high school, you do, you think, what's, and it's not about the high school graduation requirements as much as we focus on those. It's what does the college want? Exactly.

Cathy Duffy (2): 39:16

Because,

Cathy Duffy: 39:17

You're going to do the diploma for high school and yeah, that may be a state requirements or whatever. But yeah. Yeah. Bigger concern is, what is the college one? How did they get to college? What

Timmy Eaton: 39:25

does a college or what does a career require? Because that's what, who gets to that, who gets to their master's degree and says, so what did you do in high school? And nobody cares. They care about what you do, in your undergrad and otherwise.

Cathy Duffy: 39:37

Yeah. And that's changing. I think it's important to know too, that the whole thing with college, I think is really in flux and this push towards career training and alternatives to college, I think it's only going to explode. At some point, the college model is just going somewhere else. Especially

Timmy Eaton: 39:56

as it becomes such a business that creates a lot of debt. But yeah, I see what you're saying. Say more like what we, what are you imagining?

Cathy Duffy: 40:03

The same thing we've discovered with homeschooling, a free market of educational resources and credentialing and whatever, you have to be credentialed for something. You take the courses you need for that. More of a pick and choose.

Timmy Eaton: 40:16

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 40:17

Yeah. It's

Timmy Eaton: 40:17

What we said earlier. My, my results are my qualifications because, there are some things for sure that you want to make sure there's some level of like accreditation or assuring that the person is qualified, of course. But man I see what you're saying. You see how

Cathy Duffy: 40:33

much good it's done us with the teacher credentialing in schools.

Timmy Eaton: 40:37

It means

Cathy Duffy: 40:37

nothing.

Timmy Eaton: 40:38

Yes.

Cathy Duffy: 40:38

And

Timmy Eaton: 40:39

no, I think you're right.

Cathy Duffy: 40:40

And you talk to employers and they'll say the same thing, college degree doesn't mean they can work. It doesn't mean they can do anything. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton: 40:46

And I dare say that even in medicine sometimes you, you feel like it's going to be like just absolutely a qualified individual and sometimes people make more gains on their own sometimes. And I, again, I don't want to invite. Interesting behaviors, but it's just good to, to know that you're you're finding your way. And I liked the idea of the free market dictating that on Kathy Duffy's website, you guys, she has her latest reviews. And one thing I wanted to ask you, Kathy is for example, I noticed that Julie Bogart's recent work with a brave writer is on there. So just, can you just walk us through that briefly? Just so when you get her new stuff and you look, you sit down, what's your process? What do you do to be able to then. Create and produce a review.

Cathy Duffy: 41:25

Yeah. Brave writer. That was a challenging one. I had reviewed, she had the writing jungle and that was the review I had up there until recently and it's gone. I didn't realize it. And she's done, she's been working, doing group classes and, teaching writing for years and years. And I've heard good stuff. stuff about her and I just assumed writing jungle was still out there. No totally revamped into different levels with, three components for each level. And I spent a lot of time on that one because it was so interesting seeing, trying to figure out what she was doing with the different levels to help work people through the different components of language arts. So she's got the grammar and the writing and.

Cathy Duffy (2): 42:03

It's all

Cathy Duffy: 42:03

covered there literature, it's really, anyway, it's really excellent. But yeah, I spent, I probably spent a good week on that because, yeah, it's all online. It's all digital. Yeah, it takes more time to do.

Timmy Eaton: 42:17

Are you always working on a review?

Cathy Duffy: 42:19

Pretty much. There's, some things only, I can get some reviews done in a day, and usually after I write something, I let it sit for a day. Or two and before I come back and read it to see if what I thought I wrote makes sense. Yes, because oftentimes I'll see there's just, Oh, glaring, something missing, not clear. When I get some distance from it,

Timmy Eaton: 42:42

so Kathy, do you find that it's most common that people come to you for reviews? Hey, I'd like you to help me review this and give me your thoughts on it. Or are you seeking out materials to review? What's the most common way that happens?

Cathy Duffy: 42:54

Yeah. Most of the time I will get publishers contacting me or people who follow me, contact me and say, Hey, will you review this? When I get. Yeah, several about one product, that I haven't reviewed, then I'll pay attention to sometimes takes me a while. I have a three inch pile of printouts to try and remind me. It's just accumulated over the years here. And I've tried to, get back through those. There's so many products out there. There, sometimes I will go looking for things, but usually not. There's more than enough just to keep me busy with everything that's publishers and other people recommend.

Timmy Eaton: 43:30

And is it typically publishers or is it your following that is typically saying hey What do you think about this and once that accumulates to hey several people are asking about this I'm gonna I'm gonna check this out.

Cathy Duffy: 43:39

Yeah, I think it's a little bit more publishers, but a lot of followers Wow. A lot of small publishers, beginning publishers trying to get some publicity. And that's a little tricky because I have to sort out which, which ones are for real ready for market, which ones are just desperate, trying to figure it out.

Timmy Eaton: 43:58

I was wondering, what percentage of the materials are just really poorly done?

Cathy Duffy: 44:03

Um,

Timmy Eaton: 44:04

I know that's kind of a harsh question.

Cathy Duffy: 44:06

Yeah, but I don't write up reviews when they're really poorly done. I, I just send them back with a few comments of, Hey, here's the problems I saw. And that's probably about 10%. Oh,

Timmy Eaton: 44:18

okay. So it's not that

Cathy Duffy: 44:19

much. It's not a lot. I do look at the websites. If somebody says, Hey, here's our product before they send anything. I will go to the website and look at it and see if it even looks like it fits my audience. I will rule out some things. Hey, this just, it's too specialized to, a little bit too far off from what my audience is looking for.

Timmy Eaton: 44:37

I'm glad I asked that. Cause that's good to know. So that's actually good. There's quality things being produced and that's good to know as a homeschool parent and as somebody interested in education, so maybe we'll just transition to the last question here that I'm just interested. We talked a little bit about your your website and just all of the resources that it offers. But can you just expand a little bit on, on some of those resources?

Cathy Duffy: 44:58

Yeah I've accumulated I don't have any idea how many reviews on there. Tons of reviews and that's what people know, but we've got some tools on there now that people often miss. There is an advanced search tool, not the regular search tool, but an advanced search tool. And people can go into it and they can search by grade level, by subject, by learning styles, point of view, religious perspective, even political perspective, economic perspective,

Timmy Eaton: 45:26

yes

Cathy Duffy: 45:26

methodology, you want Charlotte Mason classical, that sort of thing. So lots of ways to search and the learning styles. We've also got now, we just put this up this last year, a learning styles questionnaire that you can use for your children, you take, take the questionnaire that'll help you sort out. What your children's learning styles are. I

Timmy Eaton: 45:47

love those questionnaires. They're so good to help people, especially when they're starting, but even as they're evolving to kind of align. So that's great.

Cathy Duffy: 45:56

Even better with the learning styles questionnaire, we've created. Uh, Section where you can create an account. We do not use that information for anything, but you can create an account where you can save your results from the learning styles questionnaire. Then when you go, you, cause you, you tie it to a student. Then when you go to do an advanced search, you can tie it to the learning styles questionnaire. So it'll help you automate. The learning styles end of it. Yeah, that was a big project to get that built into it. I

Timmy Eaton: 46:28

bet. I bet. And I bet you that, that really, I could see that lending itself also, like I was saying especially to people that are really finding their way with their, what philosophies do they adhere to and, what what Priorities. Does that match in their families? And I love that and being able to match it with a homeschool style or an eclectic style. So that would be really helpful.

Cathy Duffy: 46:49

All of those tools on the website are free. I do sell my book. 103 top picks for homeschool curriculum or the shortened version, how to choose homeschool curriculum. And they explain further about learning styles and about the approaches to education and about goal setting, all those things to think about before you really start looking at curriculum. But they, they don't have to get to

Timmy Eaton: 47:11

104 and 105 or what do you think?

Cathy Duffy: 47:12

I don't know. It has, it has progressed. We were used to be, Christian home educators, curriculum manuals, and we grew to. Two separate books, one for up through eighth grade, and then one for high school.

Timmy Eaton: 47:25

Yeah.

Cathy Duffy: 47:26

But both were like 300 plus page books, and I said, this is crazy, I cannot, this kills me trying to do that. So I, that's when I went down to the, okay, we're going to just do 100 top picks. Now we're at 103 topics and I don't redo it every year. It's about every four years or so, something like that. Four or five years.

Timmy Eaton: 47:45

Wow. So

Cathy Duffy: 47:47

we'll see. I know each time I say never again, but then you just have to start like

Timmy Eaton: 47:52

a different volume or an addition or something like that.

Cathy Duffy: 47:55

We did, with technology, my latest books now are strictly digital books because I've. Just put them. So all the links are there. It just helps you save

Timmy Eaton: 48:07

a long process of production. And so that I really think that's a great way to. Yeah.

Cathy Duffy: 48:16

It makes it easier for them to find things they're not having to flip all over the place too. Yeah, I just thought that was the way to go.

Timmy Eaton: 48:23

Yeah. That's excellent. Yeah. Now I talked about this a little bit and I just will maybe ask you one a different way, but if somebody were to say to you, are there three or four that you're just like, these are just awesome curricula.

Cathy Duffy: 48:36

I really can't do that because there are things out there that might be perfect for somebody that I don't personally like, that I wouldn't use.

Timmy Eaton: 48:45

Great point.

Cathy Duffy: 48:46

Yeah I do with my top picks, these are things that a lot of people have liked that I know are popular and really great. Meet a pretty wide audience. Yes. I do try to among my top picks. I try to include things that address different approaches to education. So there's some for classical and some for Charlotte Mason and unit study, and, independent study, you've got a range of things within the top picks. And that's the thing that I try to get across to people that just because a product is not among my top picks doesn't mean it's no good

Timmy Eaton: 49:21

No, it might be perfect

Cathy Duffy: 49:22

for you. Yes, it might be.

Timmy Eaton: 49:24

Yeah, that's a beautiful way to say that and it's good And I noticed that like again when you go on your site and you see how vast a resource it is and how thorough the reviews are. I think people can really appreciate the work that goes into that and the objective view that you're giving these resources. And I wondered are they, are some of them really niched like niche to a very specific component

Cathy Duffy: 49:47

yes, I am just now. finishing up a review of an American government course.

Timmy Eaton: 49:53

Okay.

Cathy Duffy: 49:54

And it is written for Christians, definitely for Christians, lots of, Bible, but, biblical view of government and all that built into it. Also though, for those who want a very limited government, and this author is really really stressing the government is only there to do two things, nothing else. It should not be building roads. It should not be, no income tax, no, and he goes through long, oh, I'd

Timmy Eaton: 50:20

be interested in that. It's very

Cathy Duffy: 50:22

interesting, very thought provoking,

Timmy Eaton: 50:25

but

Cathy Duffy: 50:25

written for a niche audience for sure. Yeah. Not going to be used in your book. Christian school down the street because you'd have parents up in arms.

Timmy Eaton: 50:33

Yes. Yeah. And I can only imagine as you say that, and as I think of the years of you reviewing curriculum and just the education that you personally have gained from all that I don't know if people understand or appreciate that enough. So thank you for all that you're doing. I'll give you the last word and then I think we'll wrap up.

Cathy Duffy: 50:51

I think parents need to recognize they don't need to know everything when they start homeschooling their children. They are learning right along with their children. And to give yourself some grace, Take some time, pay attention to what's working, what's not working and don't be afraid to try other things, you get some, something that's not working, try something else and don't be afraid to use something in a way the publisher didn't intend all the curriculum is out there to be a tool for you, not to control what you do.

Timmy Eaton: 51:22

Awesome. I love that. That makes me think of what we were talking about with the university and post secondary that it is a tool for you. And that means a lot coming from somebody who has spent so much effort in so many years studying curriculum and seeing a vast variety of learning materials. And so thank you very much. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. We've been able to spend time with Kathy Duffy and thank you for taking time to be with us. That wraps up another edition of This Golden Hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it if you would take a minute and give us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.