This Golden Hour

82. Your Kids Need YOU with Rachael Nelson

• Timothy Eaton

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In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Rachael Nelson from Alberta. Rachael is a seasoned homeschool mother of five children. We talked a lot about the challenges, benefits, and rewards of homeschooling. Rachael imparts her wisdom and counsel regarding a variety of homeschool topics, including the role of the homeschool dad, the importance of having homeschool be a joyful experience, and that all children really need for optimum learning and living is their parents. In our discussion, we realized that homeschool moms fill their buckets in different ways, but that they share in common being filled by spending so much time with their kids and discovering the world together.

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Rachael Nelson:

the thing that your kids need most is you and just don't stress about literally anything else. Literally just focus on getting that quality time with them and filling their buckets because that also fills your bucket. Just have faith in yourself and your ability to do it and your ability that you are the person that your kids need. They don't need anybody else but you. And you're not going to wreck them. You're not going to stifle their education. They are going to blossom before your eyes and you will see. Miraculous changes in them and in yourself and you will all be better for what you're doing.

Timmy Eaton:

hi, I'm Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six and doctor of education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out. But people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling. And homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today and enjoy this episode of this Golden Hour Podcast as you exercise, drive, clean, or just chill. You're Listening to this Golden Hour Podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Rachel Nelson from Alberta. Rachel is a seasoned homeschool mother of five children. We talked a lot about the challenges, benefits, and rewards of homeschooling. Rachel imparts her wisdom and counsel regarding a variety of homeschool topics, including the role of the homeschool dad, the importance of having homeschool be a joyful experience, and that all children really need for optimum learning and living. In our discussion, we realized that homeschool moms fill their buckets in different ways, but that they share in common being filled by spending so much time with their kids and discovering the world together. Welcome back to this golden hour podcast. We're excited today to have with us, Rachel Nelson from Alberta. Rachel, thanks for being here.

Rachael Nelson:

No problem. Thanks for having me.

Timmy Eaton:

Indeed. And Rachel and I met recently at a bonfire, right? It was like a little fire with a mutual friends and it's cool because our kids know each other now. And so this is good. It's good. And it's bringing in different towns to the homeschool world. So why don't you, if you don't mind, just give us a brief bio of you and your family and whatever you want to say, and then we'll get into some questions about homeschooling.

Rachael Nelson:

Okay we we live on a ranch just in southern Alberta, and we have five kids. We're going into our ninth year of homeschooling. And yeah we've really enjoyed the journey and our kids, we really like to do lots of outdoor activities. We ski and we horseback ride and we move cows and do lots of learning outside and it's taken me a kind of a long time to hone in on, on what works for me in homeschool. But I think we've more narrowed that down. It's always an ever evolving.

Timmy Eaton:

Yes, it is process.

Rachael Nelson:

Yeah,

Timmy Eaton:

I know. I know you're just doing a bio, but say more about that. What do you mean about the narrowing down? What? Tell us a little bit about the, that journey or the evolution of that.

Rachael Nelson:

Yeah I think. Earlier on I really struggled with feeling like the need to accomplish things. The need to, get through this book and do this worksheet and, Finish this

Timmy Eaton:

curriculum.

Rachael Nelson:

Yeah. I just was really curriculum focused and, I was miserable. They were miserable a lot of the time. And, there were tears of frustration and, And anger on both sides, I think so. I bet you there's

Timmy Eaton:

tons of people listening and just like nodding their heads.

Rachael Nelson:

Oh yeah. And once I, it came from my background, my mom's a teacher. And so that was really an important part of my growing up. And obviously I went to school and. Was trained that was the mark of accomplishment, was getting the grade and checking the box and, making sure that I'd learned what was expected of me. And I liked school for the most part. I did fairly well in it, but I wouldn't say it was a joyful process for me to be in school. And so for us, like it bought curriculum and then thrown it away, but okay, I went back to that. original idea that I needed to be accomplishing things. And oh yeah, I remember we don't like this. So I throw it away and I'm like there went, 500 bucks in my homeschool budget, but lesson learned. Now I really keep things fairly simple. I try to, even for my older kids, Obviously, I do expect more from them, but I want it to be something that they look forward to, that it's, they're excited to get up and get going and learning together and and it's been great to meet other homeschoolers and get different ideas and work those things in. We have a fairly simple routine. We do quite a bit. We spend most of our time together doing, a group class of one thing or another. And our morning routine, we start together. We do our, scripture study and our prayers and that, Usually takes us at least half an hour cause we get into good discussions and

Timmy Eaton:

is your husband around for that too? Or is he off working by that time?

Rachael Nelson:

If he is home, he will totally participate in that. So it just depends on his schedule. And the kids love it when he jumps in there, cause he has lots of good insights to offer. So yeah, most of our time is spent just snuggled under blankets in the living room, just talking and reading together. And I think that for me has just brought so much more joy into our homeschooling is just taking, removing that pressure of expectation. Specific expectation, right? My expectation has evolved from, you need to get this done to what do you want to do and what is fulfilling to you. And yeah there's things that I want you to learn. I want you to learn how to spell. I'd really like you to be able to write a letter.

Timmy Eaton:

Totally. There's eventually at least,

Rachael Nelson:

for sure. It's been so cool to have that flexibility because kids are all so different and here's my six year old who just took off reading. No, No questions asked. She just wanted to do it. Loved it. Couldn't get enough, right? And then there was my, eight year old, now ten year old, who literally learned to read last year. And people were on my case what is going on? He needs to be reading. There's, he's behind. I'm like, do you know what? I, Trust

Timmy Eaton:

the process.

Rachael Nelson:

I trust him to do it when he's ready. And so we would sneak in little things and, probably, five minutes of reading a book that he's interested in, he's very interested in outdoors things and hunting and building things. And so we would just, I just let him do that. I just didn't push it. Cause I, again, wanted him to have that. Absolutely. Love learning. And, and Sarah and I have this in common where we love the Yoto players.

Timmy Eaton:

Oh, yes, indeed. They're so good.

Rachael Nelson:

I don't even know how much money I've spent on cards, but, that would just, that just hooked him on the imagination side of reading and the adventure side of reading. And so once that happened, he embraced more like the challenge of reading because it is hard and it's okay that it's hard. It's good that it's hard, right? Yeah, and now he's caught right up and you know I don't know that he will ever be and a reader like my older ones because They will sit down and read for three or four hours if I'll let them, and I do let them sometimes, depending on what they're reading. But he would just rather be outside with his dad, building, moving cows, doing anything outside. And I'm like, that is great education too. Letting go of those ingrained beliefs that, Regular school has cultivated in my brain has just been so key in making our homeschool something that we just love doing.

Timmy Eaton:

Man, you've said so many things that I want to kind of address. I don't know if I'll remember them all but the first thing I think I would say is like the, I think there's a principle that you really highlighted there with expectation and it's hard as a parent when you have them and you have core values. And you really tied in nicely there, the idea of de schooling and opening your mind to a new way of things. It's actually probably more aligned with your family priorities, but that idea of expectation, I was just reading a book recently. It was in the religious context, but it was talking about how, and it's a hard concept for people. Who are so ingrained in a certain mindset to, accept or to try to implement. But it was this idea of like, when you have expectations, a lot of times that leads to, they say when there's expectations, it's almost impossible for a child to separate that from a certain identity, which then lends itself to more of a shame type process. And it's hard for my brain to get around cause I, and I don't have it fully understood yet, but when you were saying that, it made me think, and I think you illustrated that, right? Like when you have expectations and some people listening might go is there something wrong with having expectations? And I'm not sure how to answer that yet, to be honest because again, I'm in, I'm definitely in the old paradigm of that,

Rachael Nelson:

but

Timmy Eaton:

that, that it can have, Children assign identity that might not be accurate to who they are and you know what they're destined for. And then that could lead to shame. But anyway, that I have to explore that more. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Rachael Nelson:

I like what you're saying. And I don't know if it for me when you're using the word identity. More resonates with value, when we assign, because that's really what grading does for kids. And I don't honestly grade anything. My kids do. You don't really either. I don't care.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah,

Rachael Nelson:

I know and I, I feel like for me anyway, like if I was. In the lower percentile of the class, I felt less valuable. I felt less

Timmy Eaton:

totally

Rachael Nelson:

you assign an

Timmy Eaton:

identity or a value to that based on that culture

Rachael Nelson:

based on someone else's expectation of what you should be. And I really have worked hard to separate that and to assign value to character, to assign value, to work ethic, progress happiness. We should be happy. We should be joyful in what we're doing. And this idea that we should sit behind a desk for the rest of our lives. If we want to do that, if it fulfills us, great. And sorry, it will. Yeah, it absolutely will. But it doesn't fit every kid. And I think we have, unfortunately, like an army of adults who hate their jobs in the world because they're fitting that expectation. And I don't mean to say that we have to be joyful in everything we do. There's so much of life that is a grind and kids have to learn to do that too, right? But I think that homeschooling also provides the perfect opportunity for them to learn. Yeah, there are things like, I'm always like I really don't enjoy cooking. And yet, I do it three times a day. I don't enjoy cleaning my kitchen. And yet, I do it three times a day. And, those are just parts of life that are

Timmy Eaton:

you got to tap into that delegation of homeschool and get those kids on.

Rachael Nelson:

Oh, no, I just exaggerated that. No, I know what you mean. A ton of chores. I, I, my uh, my stepdad's always like, Hey, you're a bit of a slave driver. I'm like, yeah my kids are going to have.

Timmy Eaton:

They know how to work, how jobs maybe,

Rachael Nelson:

hopefully later on I dunno what they're gonna do, but

Timmy Eaton:

No, I totally know what you mean. I like what you're saying and there's things, there's a, but there, like you said, there's a line between things that you don't enjoy doing that you need to do, like things that have to get done. Mm-Hmm. And then just carrying on with something that is not producing joy, that hate. And it's like why do we think that means grit? Or, and so I don't know to each his own or her own on how they do that, but It's like what you were saying about curriculum, use the curriculum and use it as a tool for you, but once it's served its purpose and individually, that's going to differ amongst your children, but then just discard and move on, man, and keep learning. And don't feel

Rachael Nelson:

bad about letting that go. Feel happy about it. Because you're, I just feel like it has empowered my kids to decide for themselves who they want to be, what they're going to do, what they like to do. And and it's allowed me to give them that space because before I just felt like I feel like I, I look back at myself. Eight years ago, and I shudder sometimes thinking about some of these things, and I just was not allowing them that space a lot of the time to to love themselves and to be who they want to be. To grow

Timmy Eaton:

into it.

Rachael Nelson:

Yeah. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

I've seen a very clear correlation after 80 plus interviews doing this and just 20 years of homeschooling. I've seen a very clear correlation with less and less curricular use. As homeschoolers spend more time homeschooling. It's interesting. And I don't know if you listen to Marlene Peterson, but she's amazing and Sarah does a lot with her taking a course with her right now. But anyway she talks a lot about that. She gives this idea of no curriculum, meaning that just use it for how you're going to use it, but focus on learning, focus on character development and things that matter more. Now you mentioned before that your mom's a teacher. How did your mom and dad and whoever, your family members and then your husband's family, like how did they all. Respond to this.

Rachael Nelson:

It was a bit of an adjustment, I would say for most of them. I, I think the classic socialization argument came up. I don't even know how many times. No, I just laugh any, anytime anybody brings that up, do they too?

Timmy Eaton:

Do they too? Do they care any more about that question? Or, Oh,

Rachael Nelson:

no, my family are. Very much on board. My, my one sister homeschools, one of her boys and she's very much she had homeschooled all her kids for several years. But yeah. And my mom, she's super supportive and she's actually taken the reins with some writing courses cause she's a literacy specialist. And it's fun to just involve other people, and yeah, I think my younger brothers were Their big thing was like they need to learn to deal with bullies, and I'm like, nah, I don't I really disagree with that. Cause as an adult I don't deal with bullies, like I just, I leave, I walk away. I don't have to be around that person. So that was a funny one, but yeah, it was an interesting thing. Cause I think homeschooling has evolved so much over the last 10 years with who's doing it and how they're doing it. And the classic argument was like all the homeschool kids I knew as kids were like, you know, couldn't talk to people and were just really. Awkward, right? But I just love that these kids are getting socialized by a wide variety of ages and a lot of adults. And so the behavioral patterns that I observe, in this homeschool co op that we're part of with, 40 kids. I think there's around 40, 40 plus. They are just nice to each other

Timmy Eaton:

and from totally different families. Yeah.

Rachael Nelson:

They're just nice. And they, yeah. And they get along and they can just come in and play together and appreciate each other. And I think that comes from that different perspective of socialization where they're socialized by adults who usually don't behave in ways like that. And kids of all ages, so you're not just with the Five year olds from kindergarten to grade 12. You get a wide variety of people and I think that has just helps them to be more accepting of different personalities and able to work with people who are different than them. And be okay with them. I think that it's just fantastic. Yeah. Oh, that's great.

Timmy Eaton:

And it is. You're right. Things have evolved so much. And and I always feel sorry sometimes for homeschool pioneers because they do get that rap of weird and whatever. But I think it was, It's commensurate to what it is now. And, I teach religious education all day long with people that come from some from homeschool, but mostly from a public school setting. And I'm saving kids from social suicide every day. So I don't I just can't buy into that anymore. That's such a antiquated thing but I wanted to ask what was your first exposure? Like, how did you and your husband get into this? What was the first exposure? And then how did you like actually go, okay, we're doing this.

Rachael Nelson:

You know what, it was like literally when my daughter was born, my first daughter, I just I just knew right then that I was going to do this and that I wanted to be the main influence in her life. I wanted to be The person that got to be with her the most, I just wanted to spend as much time with her as I could. And that hasn't changed. And it's funny because lots of my friends who send their kids to school are like, yes, it's finally me time. I just look at them and I'm like, Oh lucky you.

Timmy Eaton:

That's why this is called this golden hour, because that's something that Sarah and I just have never related to, but especially Sarah was it before birth that you were like, man, I'm starting to feel this, or was it like holding the kid and going, Oh my goodness, like I, I just, I love this. Is that what triggered those thoughts or, yeah, I think

Rachael Nelson:

it was after, I hadn't really thought about it before she was born, but yeah, just as she got around, probably about the six month range, I just was like, I can't I, I just want her home with me. And that has been such a blessing and just to be together. And the other, I'm sure you heard this. As well as I was, depriving her or all my kids of having that best friend experience and having the teenage experience of just being with kids all the time. And, it is different for her and for all of them than it was for me, but I don't view that as a bad thing at all. Because they are each other's best friends. And those best friends are going to last a lifetime. Yes. I have maybe one friend from high school that I still get together with every five years.

Timmy Eaton:

That's totally me too. No, I know. And the other thing is that it's exactly akin to what you were saying previously about this idea of. The way things are. And I think what I've noticed about a lot of homeschool families, because there are some consistencies of them thinking of or like even just thinking and thinking about those things more proactively and deliberately and going is that the culture we want? A peer oriented and, any, anybody who does the research on that and the connection to social media and everything else, like it's so much healthier for them now. And in the future to have it be a family focused. Approach and that's not to say that there's not tons of time with friends. I our most common sentiment is we have to cut back. Like we have to cut back. Like we never have done co ops until now. It's been 20 years or whatever, and we haven't ever done this until now because we're at a different stage of our children and we never even thought of this before because there's so much social through sports, music, church, whatever. And anyway, I really love what you said there. So when you guys started you're what did your husband think of it all? And did you start reading about it a bunch and learning stuff because you said you felt like it from birth or did you not get into that kind of stuff until it was like approaching five and six years old, that kind of thing?

Rachael Nelson:

Yeah. When we first moved to Pincher Creek She did actually go to kindergarten only because we had the most phenomenal kindergarten teacher and she retired a couple years after Logan. Logan went to kindergarten there as well, but the pull was just like, I actually I actually pulled her mid year in grade one because my husband he was okay with it, but he wasn't as on board as I was at first. And when she got to grade one and I just felt so strongly that I needed to have her home. And so midway through grade one, I was like, okay, I'm doing it. And I just, Went to school on day I was like she's done so I'm just gonna take her. And the teacher was like oh. Oh, okay. Did I do something? I'm like, no, you did not. I just, I've been wanting to homeschool for a long time and I just feel like it's right now is the time that we're doing it.

Timmy Eaton:

Interesting.

Rachael Nelson:

And that was like she was at school when you

Timmy Eaton:

did it. You, or you came in with your daughter.

Rachael Nelson:

I think she was at school. Oh my goodness. You were just like that.

Timmy Eaton:

You were just feeling at home going, okay, dude, I got to do this.

Rachael Nelson:

Yeah. I'd just been feeling that sense of like, okay. I don't know why, but it's right now. Now is what's, it needs to happen. And the next year we were actually building a house, moving and and I was having a baby. So that was a big year. So she did actually go to school because Logan was going to kindergarten. So she went to school that year while I had a baby and got settled into our new house and it was a fine experience. It was okay. But then, yeah, I've never, I have never felt the inclination at all to send any of my kids to school again. And none of them want to go anymore. They just love being at home. And all of

Timmy Eaton:

your kids are on the same page that way.

Rachael Nelson:

Oh yeah. Yeah. All of them. They just, they love the freedom. They understand, we, we do talk about that. Like we, they understand the freedom that comes with it. The lifestyle is just. Fantastic. And we'd like to travel and we, I think I, I got in a bit of trouble when she was in grade two. Cause I think she missed 35 days of school or something. And they're like, she really just needs to come to school. On my list of things that are important. It's pretty low. So

Timmy Eaton:

I

Rachael Nelson:

was still thinking it's so

Timmy Eaton:

hard for people to understand that when they haven't come to that mentality themselves. we always say it's like an uphill, not battle, but it's an uphill journey for sure. But slowly that is changing. It used to be when I've done the research on it, it used to be that it was ideologues and pedagogues and people always fit into those two categories. Now you can't do that. Like it's just so eclectic that you cannot like Categorize. It's just it's a wide one. How did you get help and like mentors when you were first starting? Like when you were like, man, how do I? How do I approach subjects? And what do I do about time? And just any of the concerns. Did you ever have a homeschool mom that was like your mentor? What did you do for help in mentorship?

Rachael Nelson:

That's interesting to think of. Because I feel like where we live, there just weren't very many homeschool families. And so I would just I looked at some blogs, and I looked at, I followed the Good and the Beautiful for a long time and actually, okay, that's not true, so I did have one, my midwife, who was a homeschool mom, and she was like, oh, I love this, and I love that, and so that was really all I had to go on. Wow. I know that there's, and I think addressing this is a good idea. I think that there's so much out there. It is so easy to get like completely overwhelmed.

Timmy Eaton:

Oh, yes.

Rachael Nelson:

And I felt that 100 percent at the beginning. And so I stuck with the good and the beautiful curriculum for a little while. I still really love their history, and I love their science their science modules, but other than that, I don't really do a whole lot of curriculum, but I also got into Thomas Jefferson education. Reading about that and decided that I liked the concept of, a classical education. I really liked that, but I'm not gonna, sit and play the piano for an hour and just hope my kids sit down at the piano and Play, because that's you and then them was the at least at that time was their philosophy. But you know what I spent thousands and thousands of dollars just buying books, and I have a phenomenal library that I absolutely love and. Of course, my kids don't ever go up there and I, I have to be like, this is what you're doing. And I actually don't allow them to set foot in a regular library because generally I don't like what they pick out and come home with. I know that's so sad,

Timmy Eaton:

huh? That's you can't even guess how many people have said that on these interviews. It's and it's that in people listening might go, Oh, come on, you guys, but I go, no, dude, like that's, it's real, like it's, there's so much crap and it's not, Charlotte Mason calls it twaddle and it is exactly what it is. It's just, it's bubble gum that doesn't edify.

Rachael Nelson:

It's I think the good and the beautiful, they call them rollercoaster books that have absolutely no value whatsoever except for entertainment. And I detest those books. And I. My kids, sometimes we'll bring them home on their own and they disappear a little while later. But

Timmy Eaton:

There's no such thing as a good children's book. They're just good books. Because it does it because our favorite children's books, they're so good. Oh,

Rachael Nelson:

absolutely. In our morning time, we do a group book that we read and all ages enjoy them. A good book is just a good book for everybody. And for me included I absolutely love. It's Zara's favorite

Timmy Eaton:

part of Homestuck, for sure, is books, like for sure.

Rachael Nelson:

Yeah, my 15 year old the other day was like, could you like reign it in a little? An hour and a half is just like a little long for me. And I was like, really? I just, it's so fun. I lose track of time. I

Timmy Eaton:

know. Oh,

Rachael Nelson:

yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm

Timmy Eaton:

just kidding. I just said, our kids are used to like, when Sarah, she probably hate that I'm saying this, but when Sarah's face goes into her shirt or into a pillow, they know that she couldn't hold it in anymore.

Rachael Nelson:

I've gotten pretty good at the brief pause, get myself together, and carry on without them knowing as much, but, oh yeah Pollyanna, I cried, and Black Beauty, I cried, and every book has, A part of it, but just will speak to me. The good ones, right? Not every book. Yes. I don't think I'd cry if I read Percy Jackson, except it out of pain. Maybe people will hate that. I said that

Timmy Eaton:

this is a hard question and see, if see what you think, but if you had to like, identify a few things maybe it's easier if if you had to identify just like Awesome resources, whether it is curriculum or just books or YouTube channels or podcasts. Is there any that you're like, no, these things are like kind of staples and I think they're good. And I think this is good because it's creating A resource for people listening where they go. Oh, that's cool to hear. I've never heard of that one. Are there some that come to mind just a few resources? I know that's really general, but

Rachael Nelson:

no, that's okay.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah.

Rachael Nelson:

Again, I go back to the good and the beautiful for like history and science because the modules that in science are just vivid and descriptive and interesting and My kids really enjoy them. Their history program. I really like the way they do it because it's they have divided it into four different years, It goes through the same time period, but it's in different parts of the world. What's happening here. What's happening there. And I think, that's really opened up. My kids minds in my mind to the fact that what's happening right now to me is like Very small portion of what's going on, right? yes so i've really enjoyed those things and also to see the correlation between inspired people who were doing the same things in different parts of the world like yes, that was just a mind blowing moment for me when I just realized like these people in Europe and in Britain and in Spain and, they're all being inspired to do the same thing. They didn't have social media or any kind of way to communicate with each other. And so that was just, I love the way the Good and Beautiful pulls history together.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. That makes it interdisciplinary too. Cause it's not just history. Then you're pulling in geography, you're pulling in a lot of subjects. So that's cool. Anytime you do something cross cultural like that, it's very interdisciplinary and and very educational for the kids..

Rachael Nelson:

And they have, read aloud books that go along with it. They have like an audio portion of the program that is like a dramatization and everybody loves that. So I really like that one. And for me, I've always, at least in the last, five to seven years I've come to the conclusion after observing, the improvement in writing skills and vocabulary and grammar and spelling that, reading is one thing that really does work by osmosis for the most part, where they're reading fabulous books that are incredibly high quality literature. They're going to learn different ways of thinking. They're going to learn all those things that we just talked about. Without knowing that they're learning it, and that's the best kind of learning. And vocabulary.

Timmy Eaton:

Just even the academic side of it we were so deliberate with our first couple of kids. And then after that, it was just literally, they just knew how to read. I cannot explain it. And they would teach each other too. But I think that like you were talking about your son or one of your kids that was later, whatever later means I don't know who's holding the, who

Rachael Nelson:

set that timeline that was supposed to happen.

Timmy Eaton:

But the reality is. If you just read I'm so confident with that. Like I, I do not hesitate to tell any family or parent if you're reading to your kids every day, just don't worry about it. Keep it going.

Rachael Nelson:

You do not have to worry about it. And if you're encouraging them, and I've talked to my kids about the value of a book, of book a, which was, mass produced. Speed literature that has no value to it whatsoever, doesn't challenge your brain, at all to understand what's being said and to think in a different way and to see someone else's perspective. And here's book B that, Wakes your brain up and challenges it. I mean, Your brain is just as much a muscle as any other part of your body. And if you don't work it, it will atrophy as well. We talk about that a lot. And so that's why I really have spent a lot of my homeschool budget buying the books. I really liked the Thomas Jefferson education book list. I bought almost all the books on there. Yeah, and my kids have loved all the ones we've read. Like one of the best resources is other homeschoolers. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Like your wife's cousin. They are avid readers. That is what they do, and she has given me some of the best recommendations of books of anybody I've ever asked. She just, yeah, people

Timmy Eaton:

find like very cool books and hidden places and so yeah. I love that the connecting., are there any more like resources that you would just name that you like, you're like, oh yeah, this is awesome, I like the idea that you're like, I'm not that much of a curriculum person anyway, but any other resources or.

Rachael Nelson:

Actually Sarah just turned me on to this this math curriculum, just learn math fast. I'm a big fan of no tears. And I feel like every math curriculum I've tried, unfortunately, some have been better than others for sure, but has just been a grind and very miserable for most of my kids. But, so we've just started on it. One of my kids has already done the first book and it took him like three days. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah. And and it's, and instead of that crushing Oh my gosh, look at how much I have to do. This is like exciting. Cause look at how much I have to do and I can do it. Like I can get through this and

Timmy Eaton:

I got stuff done and

Rachael Nelson:

yeah. And it's self motivating, so I really, I, I. Fairly early on, but all my kids are really enjoying learn math fast. And i've probably tried five math curriculums and I think So far, I can say that's been the best experience.

Timmy Eaton:

That's good. That's good to hear that there are specific ones. And if I would, if you were to think of like challenges, does anything come to mind fairly readily where you're like, what's, what have you found as just one of the more challenging aspects of homeschooling, Or undesirable where it's oh, I do not like this part of it.

Rachael Nelson:

Yeah. I think the challenge has been to, for me I'm a person of faith and and I want to always be involving God in every part of my homeschool journey. And I think that has been a challenge in such a good way because not only like in, in what are we studying? What are we focused on? What's important to us, right? Every family has to assess that and decide that for themselves. But I think that probably the most phenomenal part of homeschool that is so hard is the chance that you have to really. Connect with each of those kids and to work with them through their challenges that would not happen in regular school because you're not there. And so I have one of my kids in particular, who has had a really hard time with with behavioral things. And we've had. Years, literally of just okay, we're making progress. Oh, wow. We're not okay. We're moving in the right direction. Okay. Now we're not. And I have just, and that's something that I would say to every homeschooler is just involve God in your journey because he loves those kids. And he wants them to be happy and he wants them to arrive in a place that's going to be their place right there, the place that only they can fill. And particularly with that one child, it has been just like that line upon line kind of thing where it's I don't know what I'm doing and then I can see two steps ahead and see what's going to help him. In that moment or what I need to do in this conversation, what we need to talk about what I need to adjust, how I need to treat him. That's different from my other kids. And what do I need to adjust in anything to, from like the curriculum to the diet, because we are such complex beings. We're so complex and we can't, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. We're just doing our best,

Timmy Eaton:

man. We're just doing our best.

Rachael Nelson:

I know. And so I just feel like that has been such a key part that has been really hard. Like it's hard. It's hard to homeschool kids. I

Timmy Eaton:

Thank you for that because I think what you're highlighting there again, I love to distill things down to the principle, but is that the relationship is the most important part of it. And we definitely have our challenges with Certain children like on, on really making sure that the relationship is first and we have gone even back and forth with, because a lot of people will say, don't die on the hill of homeschool, which I agree with. I guess it's not a hill to die on. However, I would also say the answer is not. It's not working here, so let's put'em in school. Like, and so Mm-Hmm. And, And I know people will differ on this and to each his or her own, but I really do think that the focus on relationships and then you kind of have to make some hard decisions sometimes as a parent. And things that are not comfortable because you wanna please your children, but sometimes things they're not gonna like, and it is what's better for them. And that's hard. Yeah. And that's what homeschooling is, in my opinion. It's intentional parenting. It's intentional living and that's, that is going to be hard, especially in the world we live in where it's like, there's so much pandering and catering to kids and their desires. And parents are not on the same page as far as phone use and social media and dating and whatever the issues are for our youth, so it's, you gotta stick to your guns, man. And you gotta know that your priorities, they gotta be clear. And that's hard. Yeah.

Rachael Nelson:

And yeah. And you have to be able to assess those based on the needs of your family, not what everybody else thinks. Said.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. So if I were to ask you, and this is hard too, on the, in the moment, but what is the first thing that comes to your mind when I say, what's a defining moment where you were like the mom watching what was happening and you're like, dude, this is why I do this. that's hard to do, but I love hearing those experiences and it doesn't have to be grandiose. Like for me, it literally is just watching them like do something simple, like work at something or just spend time together. And some would say how is that unique to homeschool? And I go well, there's a lot of that. I don't know if a specific incident or thought comes to mind, but

Rachael Nelson:

I think that there's a million of those moments where, you thankfully are given that glimpse of the possibilities, and the beauty, And I think that we're also given Those moments of gratitude where we just look at them and we see them, not for who they are in that moment, but for who they're working to become and who they will become, right? And I think those are the most satisfying moments for me. And I think you're right. Like they're very simple moments. It's never anything. I mean, Yeah, like sure. We, we sang in church the other day together as a family and it was one of those moments where I was just like, okay, this is really awesome. They're, enjoying this and doing this together. And I feel like we're gelling as a family. But yeah. But I think that there's just those moments where you look at all of them together, or more often for me, it's individually, where I'm just like, wow, you are an amazing creation, right? You, just in this moment, and what I can see, and I think that it's definitely like, That divine view that we're given sometimes where we can see more than we can see, and we feel that and for me anyway, it gives me that like ability to keep going when those moments are not there. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

I'm glad you said that actually, cause there's enough of that and those are good reminders of why you're doing this. We talked before about just like how your husband was when you started and how that evolves very common because it's usually the mom who has those feelings first or only and they do the research, they do the reading and the dad just comes along slowly. That was definitely my experience. And and so what do you see now is like what's, first of all, what's his role? How important is it? And then maybe we'll ask your counsel to new homeschool dads but what do you, what would you say to that? What are, what's like his role and how important is that role to what you're doing?

Rachael Nelson:

He's crucial, right? Is he there with with us daily as we're, doing math or as we're doing, whatever we're doing, you're reading our books or whatever, he's not always there, but he is always there because they see what he does, and he works on the farm and he also works at home and he goes to our businesses. And he's this ever present pillar of dad's strengths, right? Where he's just always there and he's that security for them. And and at his a big part of his role is teaching them how to work, like he takes them out and he shows them how to use, the ax, or he shows them how to, work with the horses and he, they learn things from him that are not my sphere, right? And like you

Timmy Eaton:

said, what, even just the act of working and doing that is, is modeling his role. And I made

Rachael Nelson:

sure to point that out to them. So that they can appreciate for the boys yeah, that is the role that you're going to be stepping into sooner than you think, right? And and that's a really important and valuable part that these homeschool dads play because these kids, I think see them more clearly because they're here and they see him come in sweaty from chopping a cord of wood and hauling it. And they see, him coming in after he's harvested the garden with me. And after he's plowed the road for the 10th time that week or whatever, And, he has grown it's not that he was against it at first, he just wasn't all for it. Oh yeah, and you

Timmy Eaton:

want to be clear, it's a new territory, I totally get that's what it was for me. But I would ask annoying things to Sarah, and I'd be like, So are we doing this again this year? Or like, uh, they're not reading it. Should they go to school? You'd ask the most annoying stuff. And it's

Rachael Nelson:

insulting to a lot of people. Do you actually

Timmy Eaton:

know what you're doing? Oh my goodness. It's the worst, man. But that's the thing I want to offer to dads is be like, okay I've learned some things. Here's some things to do and not to do.

Rachael Nelson:

And trust your wife, right? Trust your wife. Because, I think that 99. 9 percent of the time, not that we're right all the time, but that intuition to have our babies grow up around us and to have them just. Let's just be in that circle of safety as long as we can keep them there, because there's so much time for them to go out and deal with everything that's going to come at them. And there's a lot, and we know that but let's just give them that time to be little and, he has grown to appreciate that. And I do feel like homeschool does that, that your kids stay kids.

Timmy Eaton:

And I would add to just trusting your wife and then also I'm learning slowly. It's been so long that we've done this and slowly to express more appreciation and cause I feel it, I just don't say it enough or and your wife is

Rachael Nelson:

like phenomenal. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. And and to encourage really, and then to always be a listener. This might be a hard question to ask just but is there something that you're like, Oh man, I wish he did this though. I would love to hear it because it's good for dads to hear it. Homeschool dads. Cause sometimes we don't know it's a blind spot.

Rachael Nelson:

Honestly, I think that like, uh, Mark is very open to I think being open to. loving correction. And I would say advice for homeschool moms is also to be patient with the dads, right? Cause they're not there all the time and they don't see the picture that you see. But really to involve them and for dads to take that initiative and like being interested in what their kids are doing.

Timmy Eaton:

Very, I love that you said that. Yes. Yeah.

Rachael Nelson:

I think that Mark has, that's been something that he's worked on over the years. I don't think that was maybe a strong point at the beginning. I'm sure he was interested. It's not

Timmy Eaton:

that natural maybe to us or something that

Rachael Nelson:

makes so much sense to me. Especially when your kids are young, like there's just so much pressure on guys to, get out there, be successful by the things, beat the big man. And it's I think also with homeschool we can change those stereotypes and the dad can be part of that. And changing those stereotypes and what do we value as society? Do we value? Men who work all the time in the name of providing well for their families. And I think that there's a lot of well intentioned men out there who feel like that is their role. And I cannot fault them for that at all. But what do we value as a society? Do we value healthy, strong children who feel loved, supported, appreciated, safe, and so that's probably my biggest advice to homeschool dads too is really assess like what is important to you? What do you want your kids to get from you? Do you want them to see you Involved and loving their mother and helping around the house and because homeschooling is a lot, right? And sometimes they will come home to a really messy house a lot of the time, right? Because you're living, you're not just like sitting at a desk. You're actively learning, right? Yeah, I think that it's, again, such an ever changing process. And also I think for those who are faith based That is, one of those things that you're going to receive. inspiration on what you need to be working on in that moment. What do your kids need? What does your wife need? And it goes both ways. But yeah,, I have appreciated the way that he has grown into that role. And yeah, that's a

Timmy Eaton:

good way to say it. And it's a, it's an ongoing thing and I don't think that'll ever end even into grandparenthood, especially, children keep going. I have two questions left. Is that okay?

Rachael Nelson:

Oh yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

So how do you fill your bucket? What do you do? Cause like you just said, like you're living, man. I love that you said that. Like homeschooling is living and it's like living to the fullest and so there's things that go along with that. And one of those things is potential burnout and less self care. So what do you do? And what's your husband's role in that? What do you do for what fills your bucket? What fills you in a way that you're like, okay, I can go back tomorrow and I'm excited and motivated. Or maybe even I'll go back in a few days and that's the beauty of homeschooling. And that is the benefit

Rachael Nelson:

of homeschooling. Exactly. Where you're like, you know what? And when my kids were littler and they needed more more of me, it was like once a month, he was super good about just like giving me a date. Um. And even if it was just like going to the city and like walking around the mall I was alone. No one's touching me, everybody's always touching me. And that was how I got through those early days of, It's just more of a physical thing, and I feel like because I would always laugh and he laughs about this too because he would come in and take pictures because I would go, here by myself and then one would come in after me and then the next one. And within probably 10 minutes, all five of them are like, I'm, down in the office and one's sitting on the desk and one's on my lap, one's on the floor,

Timmy Eaton:

one's on the chair. And that literally continues until grade 12 and afterwards. And that, those are the things, those are the things that are like draining in the moment. And then those are the things you're going to cry so hard about when they're gone.

Rachael Nelson:

I know. I think about that all the time, Tim. I'm like, okay, just remember, this is not going to last very long. And even now, even this year, I've noticed a difference because my six year old is just giant. She's as tall as my eight year old. So having her sitting on my lap, like her head's in my face and her legs are just long. And then I've always got the next to on either side of me. And I have to remember in those moments, like it's

Timmy Eaton:

rich,

Rachael Nelson:

Love it. Just love it, and yeah, it's not the easiest thing So in those moments when you're like, okay, I just need my hands or I just need my body and

Timmy Eaton:

you and like you said earlier you need a day and maybe sometimes you need a few days and that's actually so healthy and yeah, mom's really do need to feel like they don't need permission and that they don't need to feel guilty because what a crazy You magnification of their role as a mother to homeschool. It's just

Rachael Nelson:

inspiring. I see so many of them. But now I feel like for me, if I can get up I get up early and I exercise and I study the scriptures and I'm pretty much good. What time does your family go to

Timmy Eaton:

bed?

Rachael Nelson:

I am an early to bed kind of person. I go to bed about nine 30 typically. But I really enjoy getting up early and I just feel if I can exercise and I can do my own personal study, then my bucket's full and I'm good. But I also do lots of stuff like gardening and hiking and often, almost all the time, I've got a couple of kids with me, but I'm still Out there just getting sunshine. That really helps me just being outside. And

Timmy Eaton:

homeschooling probably fills you cause you're doing it, right? And that's the thing that a lot of these moms say they'll, a lot of them are at a loss. Like Sara is very clear on what fills her bucket. She knows that, and she would say the same thing. She's actually homeschooling is what fills my bucket. But a lot of them say, yeah, like that's why you guys are doing it. Like it's awesome. The last question I had, and then I want to give you a chance to say anything that you want to bring up but what counsel would you give to new homeschool families where they're like, like you said, there's so much curriculum, there's so much stuff. What would you do to help calm them and just be like, no, this is awesome. And what would you say to somebody who's overwhelmed?

Rachael Nelson:

I would say the thing that your kids need most is you and just don't stress about literally anything else. Literally just focus on getting that quality time with them and filling their buckets because that also fills your bucket. Cool. And those other things will filter in and it will all work out. Just have faith in yourself and your ability to do it and your ability that you are the person that your kids need. They don't need anybody else but you. And you're not going to wreck them. You're not going to stifle their education. They are going to blossom before your eyes and you will see. Miraculous changes in them and in yourself and you will all be better for what you're doing. The sacrifice you're making.

Timmy Eaton:

And that means a lot for somebody who's been doing it as long as you have and really from the get go and you felt those feelings at birth, you said, and then, your oldest daughter is approaching 16. Did you say? Yeah. That's awesome. So thank you very much. So any, anything you want to say that didn't come up that you're like, Oh we definitely have to address this or.

Rachael Nelson:

I don't know. I think that you are, you're doing a great job, Tim. That's very thorough. And it gave me an opportunity to talk about a lot of this stuff that's super important to me. I am like such an advocate for homeschooling. And I love helping other people feel like empowered to do it, because it's not scary and it's, you can do it. I hear so many people be like, Oh, you're amazing, but I could never do that. I'm like, no,

Timmy Eaton:

you can do it. Cause every homeschool mom said the same thing, like they, all of them there's no exception. Oh,

Rachael Nelson:

and so many times I'd be like, okay, I'm just going to send them to school. And then I'd think about it for a bit. Then I'd be like, nope, can't do it. So we, it's like this ever evolving kaleidoscope of emotion but I just, I'm grateful. For you to be doing this for people, because I think there are a lot of people who want to do it, but probably don't have a super clear picture of what that looks like in their daily life.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah.

Rachael Nelson:

And and how incredible it can be. For you and kids. Yeah, I'd kids' to help them.

Timmy Eaton:

I'd love to help them. and it's not a mean goal, but I have this like secret little goal of closing down as many schools as possible just because it means that the families are rocking. And I just, yes. I just, I, and I know that's really grandiose and not, not totally. Oh, no. I think all schools

Rachael Nelson:

should close. Yeah. really, here's the thing. The schools that we have are based on our view of what society should be. What if it doesn't have to be what we have created, right? It doesn't. I think about this all the time

Timmy Eaton:

especially for different reasons, and it sounds weird because it's like so many good teachers and so many good people doing it. But especially the great schools, because. Just be with your mom, just be with your mom and dad and read books. And some people are going, yeah, that's really nice for you. You have a two parent home and I've thought through a ton of those situations and I still think that there's a way through other means, family, community to replicate that experience somehow. And I know it's not easy and I'm not trying to be insensitive cause I do understand it's not easy,

Rachael Nelson:

The next thing that I'm going to be on a crusade for is better funding. Cause I'm like, this is just. Insane. I'm doing all the work. You need to give me more money. And you

Timmy Eaton:

need to listen to my other podcast. Cause there's people all over the spectrum on that with government interference. But I have similar feelings

Rachael Nelson:

to make it really simple,

Timmy Eaton:

not complicated. It's because the whole issue is on accountability. And if you're going to give funding for a kid, you have to be able to be accountable. But to me then look at the statistics and look at the results, look at the results. Like I've heard somebody recently say, my results are my qualifications and homeschoolers can say that, and they can say that, you know, across the board. And so with that to me, it's about this is a citizen of our nation. This is a child of our nation, man. So if you're going to fund anybody, fund them all like, and fund them equally because a school is run and needs custodians and needs cleaning and needs administration and a mom who homeschools is all of those things in one. And so anyway, maybe we need a second interview someday because that was fun. It seems like you're passionate too. So, well, You guys, this has been Rachel Nelson from Alberta. So grateful for your very thoughtful Wonderful answers. And I think a ton of people are going to benefit. So thank you for being with us tonight.

Rachael Nelson:

You're welcome

Timmy Eaton:

That wraps up another edition of This Golden Hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it if you would take a minute and give us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.