This Golden Hour

84. Denny Burton: Homeschooling Works Out Well

• Timothy Eaton

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In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Denny Burton from Alberta Canada. Denny and his wife recently had their first baby, and they plan to homeschool. Denny has a unique background growing up as a homeschooled student. He’s also a playwright, composer, musician, and entrepreneur. Denny shares his perspective on the benefits of homeschooling, the importance of fostering a love for learning, and the entrepreneurial ventures he undertook from a young age to the present. We also discuss Denny’s educational pursuits and his ambitious projects, like Sherlock, the musical.

Denny's Work
https://sherlockmusical.com/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/2UttifMzBSKWGY6Ga0N5So

Books
Rich Dad, Poor Dad
The Education of a Wandering Man
Walt Disney - Neil Gabler

Sites
https://nanowrimo.org/


This Golden Hour
Free eBook Course
thisgoldenhour.org

Denny Burton:

​if you can see good things, keep the love of learning alive. And then honestly, don't beat yourself up I think you will have a wonderful time homeschooling your kids

Timmy Eaton:

Hi, I'm Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six and doctor of education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out. But people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling. And homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today and enjoy this episode of this Golden Hour Podcast as you exercise, drive, clean, or just chill. You're listening to this golden hour podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Denny Burton from Alberta, Canada. Denny and his wife recently had their first baby and they planned to homeschool. Denny has a unique background growing up as a homeschooled student. He's also a playwright, composer, musician, and entrepreneur. Denny shares his perspective on the benefits of homeschooling, the importance of fostering a love for learning and the entrepreneurial ventures he undertook from a young age to the present. We also discussed Denny's educational pursuits and his ambitious projects like Sherlock the musical. Welcome back to this Golden Hour podcast. We are very excited to have a special guest with us today named Denny Burt. And thanks for being here, Denny.

Denny Burton:

Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Timmy Eaton:

So excited. And I'll tell everybody why, because Denny and I go way back. I used to teach a class that he attended and his mom has been on the podcast, but Denny is a father of one he is also an entrepreneur a playwright a composer and he's taking a master's in composing in the uk right now and a musician and We're so excited to have you with us brother.

Denny Burton:

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here I'm, very happy to join you've had a pretty stellar lineup. Actually. I went I've listened to some and also just saw the lineup You've had some great people on your podcast. So it's quite an honor.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah, it has been cool to, to like, to connect with names that I like read about and studied, and then all of a sudden I'm talking to them. So that has been cool. One thing to our listeners about Denny is that, When I did my doctorate degree, he was involved in some of the studies that I did with in doing my research. And so that's been like a cool connection that he and I've had. So we've been going back and forth over the years, with our relationship and also just the the connection with homeschooling. And this is a unique interview that I've had because Denny was homeschooled all growing up and now he's on the other side of that. And so this is going to be very interesting to our listeners. So why don't you give us a bio, anything that I touched on there that you want to expand on or any, just a brief bio of yourself and what you're doing.

Denny Burton:

Sure. So like you said, it's interesting. It's a good time to have the interview because my wife and I just had our baby. And so my mindset, although. To be fair, we haven't started homeschooling a five month old. But my mindset is already in that sphere, right? Of transition from someone who is raised. So I homeschooled all the way. I actually attended kindergarten all the way through. And then then from grade one onwards, all the way through to when I went to university, actually. So university was the first time I was in, A full time classroom setting. Other than that, it was all at home. And I really loved my homeschool education. I probably am one of the most avid, stalwart, determined defenders of homeschooling because it really did shape my life. You know, when you, When you read off the list at the beginning of the things that I'm currently working on, almost all of those, the reason I'm able to do that or have the skill set or the desire, even sometimes I'll go back to my education and I think that can be present in homeschooling and public education. But anyway, so it's nice because, I love my time being a homeschooled student. I love my time being a university student. I'm currently finished halfway through my master's degree. but right now my mindset is switching to, okay, now what for my son, I had such a good experience. I want to have him have that too. So a little bit of bio is we I'm from a large family. So if you've listened to the episode with my mom was a teacher and then felt just a very strong spiritual prompting to homeschool her own children and leave her. Profession of teaching to also, she had, at that time, there's actually probably only four of us only for, yeah, it

Timmy Eaton:

probably sounds a little overwhelming when you just have a five month,

Denny Burton:

it does, but it ended up being nine being nine. Yeah, exactly. So nine kids that my parents homeschooled and some of those kids went to public school for junior high or high school. But. I stayed through the whole time. I just really loved that setup. And so yeah, raised in a family of nine. I love music. And so I've done several entrepreneurial ventures that have been able to provide for my passion, which is music. So I've lived in Nashville for two years, studying guitar studio recording and songwriting. And I had a marvelous experience working with almost everyone was way above my pay grade for just some random Canadian kid rolling into Nashville, but was able to learn from them and see the wonderful culture there. And then I did before that. Actually, I did serve a. Full time service mission for my church in the Netherlands and Belgium. So I got to learn another language and have a wonderful experience there. That's pivotal to everything I've done since actually literally everything I've done since. And then came home from Nashville. Worked on a musical Sherlock, the musical, which is based on the adventures of Sherlock Holmes, Barth, Conan Doyle. And that's been my big project for the last five plus years is on that musical. And we're currently trying to get it to London. And talking to theaters there because Sherlock has got to go to London. And then I love music. So I'm trying to better myself and taking a master's in composing for film and TV and video games. Yeah. And

Timmy Eaton:

as somebody who witnessed Sherlock, man, that was, it's amazing. Just to put in a plug we love it. Our whole family.

Denny Burton:

That's been my biggest musical project. This is the only one I fully released to share with the world. So it means a lot to me. Thank you.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah, it really was like, and I'm not just saying that I loved it. Tell them, tell everybody a little bit about I remember this when we were talking when I was doing research for my, my dissertation, I remember you talking about different entrepreneurial things you did in your career. In your high school years. And can you talk a little bit about that? Like you guys made I remember you making meals and then there was something else you did talk about that in the high school years. And we'll jump all over. I'm not worried about chronology. I'm just going to do it as it comes to my mind.

Denny Burton:

Yeah. Yeah. My parents had, My dad is a very strong entrepreneur. He practiced law for 13 years and then left his law practice to be an entrepreneur. And so he was always feeding us these books that he'd bring home about entrepreneurship. So we had read a book called rich dad, poor dad, by Robert Kiyosaki, which is all about breaking out of the rat race. And yes, entrepreneur and it's a wonderful book. And also another factor of this is we really did live out in the country. So I couldn't just walk to the Cool to be a lifeguard or something like that. It takes Organization when you live out in the country. So what I did do is I had yeah, I had a crockpot catering company And so I would cook crockpot meals Find recipes and cook them and overnight i'd cook them and then send them with my dad. He'd take him to their office and that would be their provided lunch for their employees. And so I had that business I had I found a You A pattern for these cool picnic tables where the backs folded up into a table, right? So they're benches that folded into a picnic table.

Timmy Eaton (2):

Yeah, and

Denny Burton:

so I spent two summers where I would just build a ton of Those and then go to farmers markets or go even go door to door And try to sell these picnic tables and that was to earn the money for my service mission that I did in the netherlands and my main source of income right now is I have a little business that I started that does contract laundry services for hotels in one of Canada's national parks. And so very random little ventures, but they have allowed me, to pursue music and kind of my passion for learning. And so the high school ones were the picnic tables and the crockpot meal. And then just after I returned from my mission when I was 22 is when I started doing the laundry business and I've actually, this was my 10th year running that. Really? Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

Timmy Eaton:

That is crazy. You've been doing that for a decade,

Denny Burton:

Yeah, for a whole decade.

Timmy Eaton:

No, I love where those like seeds were planted and then blossomed throughout, but, and I think my favorite is the crockpot and I just think that's such a good idea and it's so cool that they eagerly participated in that when those meals would come. So talk more about just give people an idea of what homeschooling was like for you. So from grade one, all the way through to high school, you're You know, people have so many questions about what is this like and how does it turn out and lots of concerns. And so just tell us about what it was like for you and anything you want to say about that. And then I will ask some specifics just about curriculum and social life and that kind of thing. But you just say whatever comes to mind. What was homeschooling like for you?

Denny Burton:

Yeah, that's a great question because interestingly enough, and anyone who's spent any time in homeschool spheres knows this, but it's pretty unique to the individual. Family unit and even child within that unit, what the actual homeschool education looks like. I feel like that's actually one of the greatest benefits of an education and also one of the greatest challenges. It's a two edged sword is it can be adaptable to everyone. So my experience might even be different from the sibling two years or four years younger, especially

Timmy Eaton:

because some of them were in and out and did different things. So this is a different experience for sure.

Denny Burton:

Yeah. So we had a very hands on homeschooling experience from the time I was, so in grade one, so this is funny because I transitioned from talking grades to talking ages because I still sometimes mix up which ages or which grades. Oh,

Timmy Eaton:

totally.

Denny Burton:

Yeah. And any homeschool,

Timmy Eaton:

any homeschool parents and family will understand

Denny Burton:

that. Yeah. People are always like, what grade did you really start doing more of your self directed learning? And I have no idea, but it's when I was 14 or 15, right? And so I have to just go by age, but, so my mom was our primary educator. My dad, like I said, was working full time as a lawyer. And so he would often help us, we'd write essays and he would help us, he'd help edit the essays or because it was a lawyer, in order to, Get our first super Nintendo. We had to do a mock court where we presented our ideas of why we deserved a super Nintendo, which we didn't actually present a good enough argument, but then a cousin gave us one and that was our end. But anyways, yeah, my parents were not super big fans of video games, but they helped us learn moderation and stuff, but and yeah, when I was younger, it was very hands on with my mom. So we actually had, she had set up a little classroom with desks and a chalkboard, or whiteboard. I can't remember which one it was now, but she'd teach us, physically in front of us, teach my two older siblings and myself, and then, the four of us, and that's how it was for the beginning years. And we do lots of different activities. There's always a curriculum guidelines that you're following. We'll talk about that more later. But I loved the main kind of circle central principle was it could all be circumscribed into a level of learning to keep that alive until we would transition to a phase where we're more teaching ourselves and, spending a lot more hours in books. And so we spent pretty close to the same hours that the kids would spend in school, but I think our. Genres or topic subjects in school were a lot broader, more broad, so we would, write more essays probably than my friends would be writing or we'd read books on subjects that didn't go along with the ones that they, you'd usually take in a school setting. And it was very much a an interest driven learning at that time. So if you're interested in. Helicopters, which I really was or any type of aviation. My mom was okay for us to spend more than probably you would want as a parent or your gut would tell you learning about airplanes and helicopters just to keep the spark alive, and then I, when I transitioned to something else that was more in line with the curriculum that she was probably worried about us keeping up with. And then around 14 or 15, it transitioned where she had a lot more kids at that time and was trying to balance homeschooling all the Children. And that's when I really got to, tailor my own education and it was a lot more self directed with their direction, more as a mentor than an actual teacher. And from that time onwards, even through, going to university it's, it was up to me to choose what to do and how much effort to put in. And luckily that worked really well for me. It didn't actually, some of my younger siblings struggled with that much freedom. Where they had other interests they wanted to do, or didn't maybe have, the desire to actually discipline yourself to sit down and, do curriculum that you weren't naturally interested in, or, but for me, I actually, I really excelled in that environment and it's allowed me to, Keep going today, even with my education.

Timmy Eaton:

Oh man. And like when you, I remember when you transitioned into the high school years, you were really getting into guitar, right? And so you didn't, you spend I just, in my head, it's like you did books and guitar. And I know that's not it. I'm just saying. And you were able to take, go as deep as you wanted on those things when you were in high school. And then I remember you talking about, when it was time to get ready for the ACT, because you were looking at schools in the States, you were like, man, I gotta take the ACT. And so you just took two or three months of just concentrated study and then did pretty good on the ACT.

Denny Burton:

Yeah, that's a really good memory. My goodness. Honestly, when I was 16 years old, I transitioned from playing the piano to the guitar and it really registered with me. I just, I loved it. I, it was somehow it was easier. to Create on it than it was on the piano. There were tons of notes on the guitar There's only six strings, it was easier for me to grasp somehow And so you're not far off. I really did read a ton of books and lots of literature Fiction, nonfiction, lots of fiction though. Everything from like Louis Lemoore to biographies about Walt Disney to, all of these different types of, books, history, things like that. And I read voraciously. And then at the same time I'd almost bounce back and forth between the two because with guitar, there were days where I would put in eight hours straight. Like I'd come down, grab like maybe a quick snack. And I'd be so engrossed in learning guitar that I would spend that much time Practicing scales and learning the theory and, and this was all self taught. I did bounce in and out of lessons twice to help me get over these hurdles that I had with playing certain technical things or, I had to play guitar for, the town nearby where I live. They had a community production of Footloose. And I was their lead guitarist to quit. So I was also in the lead guitarist and I didn't know how to play solo. So I got a teacher for two months and we rammed and got to learn how to do that. And then I stopped taking the lessons and. Teach myself and but you're really not far off that honestly lots of was that way. So when it came time to take the A. C. T. I feel like this goes along with so many parents reservations or even straight up fears about homeschooling is what happens if my kids are behind. Now again, this is one kid's opinion, right? So take it for what's worth. But I was behind In subjects for the ACT. So I had to take the three to four months and cram my brains out to catch up on what actually was two years of some subjects. I was ahead in math all growing up. I was two grades ahead in math all growing up until I hit algebra and I couldn't see how I could use it ever. I didn't know why letters were in equations. It didn't make sense to me, and I bailed and I did some math, but honestly, when it came time to a CTI had to go back and relearn that stuff or, yeah, especially when I was in my first year of university, I took a math course and. At that point, I, didn't know how to do these algebraic equations and I had to figure it out. But the thing was, is I could figure it out. I knew how to do it and I was able to catch up. So that was a pretty interesting time. The ACT, that's a good one to bring up because I was ahead in some things behind in other things and I had to catch up and I was able to do well and got, I was able to get a scholarship based off of that score to a university of my choice, but but it was able to work out. It didn't kill me that I didn't actually really know how to read scientific graphs. I, my science had been more, hands on or practical. Kind of biology stuff. So yeah,

Timmy Eaton:

living books. No, I remember that. I remember when you were telling me when you went to Virginia to school that you like, you took a couple of classes and at first you were like, Holy cow, I don't know this stuff. And then what you figured out or what resonated, I don't know if you remember this feeling, but I remember you saying this, that what, what hit you was like, Oh, I actually know how to learn though. And so that kind of did away With the, any reservations that you had with a subject that you weren't as familiar with, you're like, I don't know this yet, but I know how to learn. And so that gave you the confidence to dig in and go talk to who you needed to talk to and all that. And I just remember you saying that, and that, that was so helpful for me because that was, I don't know if you remember that, but when I was doing those interviews with you and others, That was at a time when we were preparing very intentionally before our oldest would enter grade nine. And cause we wanted to know how does this work out in the, we knew the primary years were amazing, but we didn't know how it worked out in secondary and in preparation for university or life and that kind of thing. But that helped me to hear you talk about that. Like just knowing how to learn.

Denny Burton:

Yeah, I that's, that means a lot because that's what I'm thinking about when I think about my own son now. Okay, what actually mattered a ton with my education and one of those things is just keeping that love of learning and then coupled with that, the skill or mindset that you can learn things that you don't know well, even on your own, right? Or you would know where to go to get your answers, right? So for instance, I took this. Math course university. And when I got there, it took two full weeks of as if it were final exams cramming right where you that procrastination feeling of Oh, man, I do not know what I'm doing. And I was very stressed out. But I, my sister in law was at the same university and she was able to help me. And then I dove into books and I went to every open session my professor had and she had to explain these things to me You know to help me learn but the crazy thing is I was able to do remarkably well Enough to the point and this is not a pat on the back This is the idea is just to get it out there so that parents know Be possible is she would use my she asked if she could use the professor use my work to showcase for students taking a class later so they could see what level it was done at and that came from someone who didn't know a plus four equals, seven and figure for a I had no idea what that meant. I was able to get to that point with help, right? And so it is a skillset and it's a self esteem thing for kids to be able to see something that looks hard or maybe even impossible. But then if you do that enough with a kid, they can see, Oh, I can actually, I can do that. I had a very dead poet society, Ivy league idea of what university was going to be like, and so I thought I'd be in the back of the class hanging on for dear life. And what's interesting is, for the first two weeks, in half of the classes, I kind of was, the very specific sciences, math, biology, etc.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah, anything with literature, writing, reading, you were rocking.

Denny Burton:

Yeah, it was easy, that stuff was just, eating, having your cake and eat it too. It was so fun to be in those classes. And then yeah, when I went with the other class like biology, I had actually never physically used a biology textbook. I, so when I got to my biology university class, I was very worried. What I had done that I didn't know is I had read a ton of books about how biology works, and I just didn't know that's what they meant under the sphere of biology. Yeah, just living books. Yeah, exactly. I knew about photosynthesis, and I just didn't know that's what it was. And there was lots of stuff I didn't know, right? I didn't know how the mitochondria worked, because somehow that had just never been in the books that I'd read. Yeah. And but I did know that I love I wanted to be there. I wanted to work hard. My parents have taught me how to work hard and to be able to challenge difficult things. And I honestly, truly thrived in my university setting, even though it was the first classroom setting I've been in.

Timmy Eaton:

Wow. And we found the same thing. Like one thing I also remember is just the idea of you hadn't taken that many tests. Is that's right. Isn't it? Like you didn't, and that's exactly the same with us. And that was a worry of ours, even though I had done my dissertation already and had your experience talking to me. We hadn't really done like really formal tests, except for like math, like they would do stuff through their own, but again, very self directed, but then, when Jane and Charlie and Jacob have done university classes, they perform very well on tests and all the research has, I knew what the research said and said, are they, We score, homeschoolers score 25 to 30 percent higher than the typical public student, but I hadn't lived it. And now I've lived it and I go, which is so funny to me. And that was one of the things I wrote my dissertation because I'm going all of this like anxiety and stress about tests for kids. And I'm not saying we don't stretch and give them something hard. But there's a lot of unneeded stress about tests when it works out, man. You just learn how to love, how to learn and enjoy learning. And then it turns out you actually perform well. And you can do that when it's not so intimidating. It's like a game to homeschool kids. Cause they're like, Oh, here's a new like game to play or something. Instead of it being like, Oh crap, another test.

Denny Burton:

It is exactly like a game to me, cause the tests I had done is in grade three, six, nine, and 12. Yeah. There are provincial, so the equivalent of a state for United States listeners a provincial exam that you would take to essentially so that the government could, and school boards and things, the school division really could see where you were at on their curriculum. That was the basic stuff. They feel like everyone at those levels would need. Yeah. Were

Timmy Eaton:

you on track?

Denny Burton:

Yeah. On track. And I had done those and I had actually had my mom sometimes, for instance, like math growing up, I really liked math. The idea of taking tests, it was funny because I didn't have to do them. It was almost like a game. So my mom would make me worksheets and then give me a grade. And I thought that was fun. Yeah, but the truth is when I got to university, I wasn't chasing a grade either. And I think that's, it was a different mentality where I had been taught enough that the education was for what you're learning, not so that you just pass the course or get the grade or even get the degree. Robert Kiyosaki in that book I mentioned, Rich Dad Poor Dad, he's all about the idea that it's not about the degree, it's about the education that you get along the way. And and so I actually found myself slipping into caring too much about grades in university. And that was something I went back and forth on a little bit, but the nice thing is when I got there, it was how much can I learn? And I think that does set you up to succeed. I think you do better tests when you're not trying to do well, the test as, as much as if you were just in the classroom, soaking in the information and then you go take and studying hard, and then taking it, if that makes sense. Yeah, it totally does.

Timmy Eaton:

No, I totally like that. Talk a little bit about social life. That's obviously a huge question people have, which is, becoming more antiquated actually, and people are over it, I think on the whole, but it's still a question that comes up, describe your social life in high school? And I know this is only one person, right? But how would you respond to that? What was social life like in your socialization?

Denny Burton:

Yeah. I, that's a good question because I do know most parents and even peers When I would talk to my peers in high school, that was one of their first questions. What about your social life, right? That was yeah important things my parents did a really great job. I believe in putting us in circumstances where we would interact with a lot of other kids and not even just kids but also parents and we go to youth camps where you'd have counselors the educational youth camps where you'd have counselors who were In that 18 to 25 range. So we would interact with kind of people of all ages. And we, we participated in, piano lessons, for instance, where we'd have peers and we, Have recitals and it was just ways to get you out there. We did the scouting program I loved the scouting program growing up which again was a social outlet a big one that I feel like for us was Probably the biggest and pretty key was our involvement with our church that we go to that was huge because That's where I met a lot of the kids who didn't homeschool or who had, even though we're in the same church, different views on things or behave differently. And you, as a kid, you have to constantly be, you use your peers as a soundboard is what is acceptable. What is not right? Is that joke funny? Is it not? Is this behavior allowed? Is it not? And other kids interacting and you're literally, I feel like the entire time growing up, all the way through high school, probably through university, and maybe even, adults too, are constantly watching for social cues as to what is acceptable and what is not, and then you get to decide what you take from that, and I feel like that's essential, so if it were just me and my siblings, I wonder if we wouldn't get that opportunity to soundboard off of people that were a lot more different than we were, which is useful, right? So church, scouting programs, things like that.

Timmy Eaton:

I love what you just said. Sorry, because from your perspective as the kid who was being homeschooled, because it's always the parents talking about socialization, but like you, you were experiencing it. And I remember you like, I remember you clearly coming in. I think you were in grade 11 and I was teaching religion courses and you would come in and I'm just being totally straight up. Like you were a breath of fresh air to people that were so culturally ingrained coming from a public system and I'm not demeaning it, it's just inevitable when they've been taught that social cues. And you were like, you would smile and you would be engaged, but then you were also very like observant of the other students. And I saw you looking around, but you just knew that you were comfortable in your own skin and you would answer when you wanted to, you weren't afraid of looking too smart or too cool if you answered. And I remember you playing football one year. Didn't you play football one year

Timmy Eaton (2):

too? So you had all those

Timmy Eaton:

experiences, but you observe as a kid and you're like, Oh, like I get what's going on, but I didn't know that was like the rule or something like that, and some of the rules are ridiculous. It's get rid of them.

Denny Burton:

Some of the rules are detrimental to friendships that I know I remember get arriving to school and I never fit in a click because I didn't really know what they were so I did take I took religion classes in high school. And I played football and I did community theater and then I would meet friends through other friends or through my siblings and that was our, social life for the most part. But yeah, I wasn't in school enough to actually know which kids were considered cool or uncool. Obviously sometimes, if someone's sitting by themselves and other people are laughing, it's easy to see that some people are ostracized But that was easy. By the time I got there, it was very clear to me of what I did and did not like about cliques. So I, if I saw them, I could, acknowledge they were there without wanting to join any of them. But, I had great friends that I met on a football team who would never have hung out with the friends that I met at theater, who also never would have hung out with the friends that I had in my religious study classes. I was fine. Yeah, I was fine floating around all of them. Like this one's crazy to each their own. This may be just one person.

Timmy Eaton:

I

Denny Burton:

feel like I had more friends because I didn't fit into those clicks. Then I would have totally

Timmy Eaton:

makes sense, man.

Denny Burton:

Yeah, and so as far as social life goes, I feel like I had a wonderful social life because I had a lot of fun being in football. And I had a lot of fun doing theater and not many if did any, I don't think any of my friends in the football team would have done theater, or vice versa, but I was able to, and that was, yeah. And so I think personally, I don't think I suffered at all socially. But you could, if you didn't, Go out of your way as an intentional parent to provide those opportunities for your kid because honestly I actually was incredibly shy growing up and even in high school. I was still hesitant like I'm not a bubbly extrovert who would go and introduce themselves to everyone, but I wasn't too shy, to introduce myself to someone or

Timmy Eaton:

you'd be in a class of 30 kids and you would say what you thought, and I remember that. And yeah. You weren't like, you weren't flamboyant about it, but you were definitely, you would say you would answer things. And I remember like from a teacher's perspective, cause you're so aware, you've got all these kids in the class and you definitely stood out as Oh, this kid. He's at it felt like a university student. And again, I'm not just blowing hot air. Cause I remember vivid experiences of you being in the class and not worrying about where you sat and who you sat by and just very self actualized because I remember it. Cause that was huge for us. When we were making our decisions to homeschool, we would go talk to your parents and I'd be like, man, these kids are different, like they're different from the majority. I remember when Christian gave a talk at a meeting once and I was like, What the heck? He was in grade nine. And I was like, what the heck did that, what was that? And it was in grade nine. And I was like, how does he know how to talk like that? He was just so impressive. And so anyway that still stays with me, but can you talk a little bit about like actual particulars? Cause I know parents are always like, so what are the actual like specifics that you did to prepare for university? And then you're making a living and you're living a life and you're have a family and you're married. You know what I mean? What are some specifics that come to mind? For example, you did take the ACT and what else comes to mind as specific particulars that prepared you for university, life, whatever.

Denny Burton:

So I actually am becoming more of a fan of the benchmarks, some type of benchmark to keep up with, even just as a goal to set for your kids. So I have great friends who are homeschooling parents. Who really value actually true freedom and decision making where they can do whatever they want to for education. And there's a lot to be said for that too. I actually liked having, I think it was important for me to have some level of, you have to at least keep up. With this level of a certain subject so that I wasn't so far behind when I got to university again I was probably three years behind in math and was able to catch up in about two and a half weeks Like it's really not that I don't know how to describe it when you're on the other end being older looking back at a subject. Yeah When you're in the subject so If I wanted to learn a language now, I could learn it 40 times faster than if I was 14, trying to learn a language for the first time, right? Just because I'm older, my brain is more developed. I know how

Timmy Eaton:

confident

Denny Burton:

Confidence, right? Confidence is a huge thing. Taking opportunities you wouldn't normally take, right? As a 14 year old, I was too shy to go to a professor and ask for one on one help. In fact, I'd be worried. I'd be in trouble, maybe. But as a university student, it was, I just, the smart thing to do and study halls and things like that.

Timmy Eaton (2):

Yeah.

Denny Burton:

So I think it's good to have a baseline of stuff to keep up with and then just go wild with the other things you want to learn about.

Timmy Eaton:

At what age, I want to interject there at what age do you think that those benchmarks become important, like aft you know what I'm saying, like even at five, even at eight, or are you talking just like when you start hitting the high school years,

Denny Burton:

I would. Personally, I'd say high school years. I think that makes sense to

Timmy Eaton:

me.

Denny Burton:

Yeah. Yeah. I'd say that. And I also was never a student that actually really struggled with a subject. I definitely struggled. I should say really struggled subject. I, it was hard to do math and things like that. I remember, for instance, my mom sitting down and being incredibly frustrated that I couldn't figure out the things she was trying to teach me in a subject. So I know that it wasn't just easy lollipops and sunbeams the whole way, right? Like I know it was difficult, especially for my mom. But by the, at the end of the day, there wasn't a subject that I really couldn't do. And I don't struggle with dyslexia or anything like that requires specialized help. But as far as someone who was just preparing for university, yeah, taking the ACT was a great. experience for me because it showed me those those benchmark.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. Gaps or weaknesses or strengths or whatever. Yeah.

Denny Burton:

Yeah, exactly. So that was pretty big for me, like

Timmy Eaton:

even application, tell it, tell like what did you do to apply for places? Like what, how was your application different from a kid who just got a diploma or

Denny Burton:

whatever? That is a great question. Cause I didn't actually end up getting a diploma. And that's unique to me. Lots of homeschoolers get diplomas, as my kids

Timmy Eaton:

haven't yet. So we, and we like that route, but yeah, again, to each his own.

Denny Burton:

I, yeah, to each their own. Lots of people do it. I didn't do it mostly because I wasn't actually thinking ahead enough. When I applied for university, to be frank, it was because all of my other friends were getting accepted universities. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to be left behind for a year. I better apply for university too. And I did want to go to university. I just hadn't really thought that far ahead as a, I was a teenager. That's pretty much par for the course. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton (2):

Yeah.

Denny Burton:

I don't know why, maybe they did. And I wasn't paying attention, but my parents hadn't really expected me to go right at 18 either. Maybe they thought I'd wait till later or something like that, maybe after my missionary service. But anyways, I went when I was 18 to university. And so nowadays, and especially even nowadays, but like when I went for the first time, It would be wow, 14 years ago. I'm 32 when I was 18. So 14 years ago. And you, even back then that's, so this is more than a decade later, right? Even back then I was able to create a portfolio of what I had learned about

Timmy Eaton (2):

So I didn't

Denny Burton:

have a diploma, but I did need the ACT. Legally, you need the ACT to get down to get a visa for Canadian students to study in the States. That may have changed too, but when I was there, you had to have the ACT. So I bought ACT prep books, did all that kind of preparation, but my application was I wrote out a list of the books that I had read up until that point. I sent in a sample essay that I had written up until, you know, that I thought was a good example of that work. I talked about the different mentors that I'd had, the different experiences I had, the extracurricular things that I had done some leadership things that I had done, the entrepreneurship, actually going back to that things that I had done and essentially created a portfolio, very similar to what you would offer a facilitator. If you're in that type of homeschool relationship with a school division, sent it to the university, had, an on the phone interview with the admission people and they got to meet me and like I said, I scored pretty high, not ridiculously high, but pretty high on the ACT, but at home I was doing much better, actually kind of bombed, bombed out. The The actual test date because my favorite youth baseball tournament was going on outside the window So I had I would say I had an above average but not near what I had scored at home score but with all the portfolio they were thrilled. They were thrilled international student who wanted to learn who I think maybe what you noticed when I was in your class of that kind of You excitement for learning and not really afraid to raise your hand and things like that. I think that resonates with schools. And so at that level,

Timmy Eaton:

well, plus you had such an eclectic experience. It was like, you went deep on several things and then you had a wide array of things that you were interested in. You had done so many interesting things and shadowed and all those things are just so amazing for university.

Denny Burton:

Well, thanks. Yeah. And that's honestly, it worked. It worked. I got in and as soon as you take a semester of university, I've never been asked for a diploma. Not once job applications. Nobody cares that I didn't that funny man. They don't even know, honestly, that I didn't graduate from high school officially. They just see my university scores and that's enough to get a master's. And that's getting,

Timmy Eaton:

and that's getting more and more. Flexible with alternatives to the 250 universities, they can take the CLT, which is the classic learning, test. I mean, there's tons of things now, and especially post COVID, there've been so many changes to ACT requirements and other things that there are more avenues than even when you were 18 years old, there's so many more avenues to how people can do this. And that's what we're learning as we, as I interview people and as I research it still, it's just crazy, all the different The avenues you can take. So what about just like for career and just life? And I always say this all the time because it's not really homeschooling per se, but it's just like the lifestyle that you lived, but it was couched in this idea, this frame of homeschooling. What do you attribute to your homeschool experience as far as what you are as a father and as a husband and just career and that kind of thing?

Denny Burton:

Yeah I think it's good that you point out that it's not just under homeschooling that these experiences happen. So I have a dear friend of mine. It's actually the gentleman that I wrote the musical with the Sherlock musical and he has as positive as an experience and things to say about his public school education in Chicago, as I do about my homeschool education in the boonies of Alberta, Canada. Yeah. And we're both adamant defenders of our type of upbringing. So it is one of those things where you really have to, as a parent, you have to feel it out and decide what's best for your family. Because for Stephan, it probably was best for him. No, it was, like, you can ask him. He had such, he thrived in that situation. And I thrived in my situation. And and both of our experiences would lead to who we are today, right? I belong to a generation, I believe, where a lot of people, more people don't have a solid career idea of what they would like to do or path than the generation before us. And it may be even more like more of a problem with Generation Under Me, but a lot of my friends that, so I'm 32 and friends in 20s, friends in, later in the 30s, a lot of them still don't have that standard career that you would expect to have at our age. It's really like almost everyone does. I also do not have what you consider to be the standard career that I would have maybe thought that I would have had. Now, the reason for that is actually. It's like my love for music is to blame and my optimism that you I can actually become world class at something enough so that people are willing to pay for my compositions cause I have obviously toyed around with and shadowed optometrists and more of those kinds of classic professions. My homeschool education was critical because I studied enough books about entrepreneurship that I knew that was the path I wanted to take very early on. So I, my current situation right now is I run a that's seasonal from May to October. International park where we do laundry labor for people. I hire my employees each year. They're mostly university students, sometimes high school students, but mostly university students in between semesters, and I have maximized efficiency at that business to where the hotels that hire us. Love what we offer them. And they know it's awesome. My employees, most of the time, obviously not, it's a job. So a lot of people don't like it, but most of the time my employees have a great summer and we, have a good time working. It's a good environment and things like that. It's a purely entrepreneurial business that I have. And then in the off season, I work the same amount of diligence. Of what would be this full time if not over full time job at my love for music. Working on my musical lately i've been working on composing for film and so i'm diving into scores and i'm taking a master's degree and I You know lots of it's self directed. The master's degree is only as of last year Everything else before that even nashville wasn't with an official Institution of learning right? It was just me moving down there to find mentors to teach me And so it really has framed my life for this type of, I don't even know the right way to call it, maybe freedom, I don't know, or at least flexibility, where I can have a baseline of what I need. I know I need this amount of income to provide for my family, and then I can have entrepreneurial offshoots and things that I'm interested in, and I can continue my level of learning. On this, in the winter time. So it's good.

Timmy Eaton:

Are there other books or resources that you would recommend? Be still, you said you mentioned Robert Kiyosaki, rich dad, poor dad. Are there others that come to mind? Like specific ones that you remember reading, being like, Oh, that inspired me or this inspired me, any come to mind?

Denny Burton:

Yeah, definitely. But they're going to sound random, but the principle behind them is people who, forge their own path. And persisted long enough in that path to be a great influence for a good that's the theme that you need some Yeah I a book for me that was paradigm shifting was it's called the education of a wandering man by louis lemore Louis L'Amour is a, for those who don't know, is a Western fiction writer who's has lots of stories on the go, but you know, he has Western detective novels is really what it sums to, down to.

Timmy Eaton:

And I want to plug in there and then keep going. I literally had this idea, I thought it was like, unintellectual, like Western book or something. I I had no clue how descriptive, he wandered the entire United States. He knew everything about every plant and tree and boxing,

Denny Burton:

That's a perfect thing to say, to interject with because his autobiography, this book, education of a wandering man is phenomenal. Not only is it incredibly interesting as a read, like it's as exciting as this fiction. But to see someone who grew up in the hobo era where you would ride trains to your next job because there wasn't income that you could just have and the way that he kept his education going that entire time so he'd have these pocket novels that they would trade with other people on the trains so that they could keep reading great books and like you said he died he knew every plant and tree and then he you know boxed and would work on perfecting his art and There was a time when he worked a mining claim. And so he's just alone for a month or more. I can't remember the exact time, but not a single person that he saw. And the amount of time to focus on your thoughts, a Walden, Henry David Thoreau type experience that book to me showed me that no matter what I was doing as a career or what was going on in my life, I could pursue education and self improvement. All along the way, right? If he could do it in the Great Depression, it's, I can do it now,

Timmy Eaton:

that's impressive because it is a different day with so many more people and different competition, I remember Sara reading that book and talking about it with me. So I need to revisit it myself. So good. And did he like, and it was like all on foot. Like he just went everywhere on foot. It's crazy how he wandered the country, but

Denny Burton:

Anyways, that's a good

Timmy Eaton:

one. Education of a wandering man. What else?

Denny Burton:

I really love, and this is actually maybe a more recent one than growing up, but there's a wonderful biography of Walt Disney by Neil Gabler called Walt Disney, or just Disney. I can't, I think it's called Walt Disney. And that for me is someone who is very interested in creating So you could label me as a playwright, but the truth is, or a composer or musician or something, a songwriter, right? So I've written a lot of songs, like pop songs, country songs. I've written one musical and working on three others right now. But very like bouncing back and forth. I need to really dive into those and then composing is what i'm doing now But that being said I also wrote the book of sherlock with my friend stefan So the actual writing did out and i've written a novel a short novel. For nana raimo. I don't know if you know about that, but where all of these It's this kind of worldwide movement where lots of writers, it's all voluntary and you don't have to pay anything to be part of it, but you try to write a book in the month of November. So it's the national, yeah, no, I can figure it out, but it's the national novel writing month, whatever. Anyway, so all sorts of people from across the world share inspiration with each other, and they've got a nice website where you can see your word count. You're trying to get up to 50, 000 words, which is a, on the shorter end of a full novel though. And so I love to write. And so it's about stories for me, not just necessarily music and Walt Disney was so inspiring for someone who came from dirt pretty much and branched out, he started as an illustrator and then he was a storyteller and then he was a massive business owner trying to creatively direct hundreds of employees to create what we know now as, now we know Disney's as household, the name is, I don't know the president of the united states or whatever like it everyone knows disney, And as george, washington or whoever And and his life was phenomenal because you, to achieve something like that, you really do have to persist at your dream and not let the people tell you that it's not going to happen or, and have a vision and then just trust in your vision. And, Disney has so many stories that are just. It seems insane that someone would have persisted to that extent, right? Mortgaging your whole company because you knew that you needed sound in your cartoon, which was new, right? Things like that, that just really inspired me. So I that one by Walt about Walt Disney by Neil Gabler was just so eye opening. It's a big read. It's I don't know, 40 hours of reading or something like that. Yeah. It's really good.

Timmy Eaton:

So cool. That's at least a few that would be awesome for people to take a look at. I just have two more questions. You okay with that? Do you feel like you would change anything about your experience being homeschooled?

Denny Burton:

Yeah I was actually talking to the friend about this, just one of my employees actually at, in my business. So it's actually fresh on my mind, but I would have, if I could go back, I would have taken advantage more of great teachers. In the public school system, so I would not have attended public school full time just based on my personal experiences and my friends experiences, all the stuff I've gathered. I could slap the label. I wouldn't change a thing but for instance, There's you probably know Mr. Rowe Randy Rowe. So he, to me was just such an inspiring guy and I knew him from other events in the community, but I would have loved to have gone and learned French with him, and I didn't. Also because of location, we were just too far away to justify driving in multiple times a week for that. I had to pick and choose a little bit. So I chose the religion classes with you, which I really loved. And those were essential to my development as just a human being. But Yeah, I would find the teachers that I really wanted to learn from and I go take their classes so so that I could just have some another viewpoint and a little structure and a way to get out of the house. Things like that. Just an additional one. I had all that stuff already to some degree, but I would have it. Found teachers in the community that really resonated with me and gonna take in their class and you can as a homeschooler

Timmy Eaton:

Easily well, and i'm just thinking as you say that like whether it's in a high school or if you live in a place That's more populated a community college or university You can audit classes like there's so many ways to do that and obviously online but if you've got enough online, you don't want your kids online all the time, then there's other options. So that's really cool. Are you guys going to take it a year at a time and see what you think, or what does your wife think about homeschooling or what is,

Denny Burton:

Oh, where, yeah, the truth is we're all in. We've, yeah, we've talked about it enough that we are the details are going to have to be worked out about how we structure it. My wife has a career. She's an ultrasound tech and I have a kind of a. Flexible, but unusual atypical, I should say career, but I'm always bouncing between two as a composer and as a business owner, entrepreneur.

Timmy Eaton (2):

But

Denny Burton:

yeah, we're all in for at least starting that way, because honestly, I don't know if you love your child and you're passionate about learning anyways, which anyone who's listening to this podcast will be, and anyone who. Who is considered, you do not consider homeschool for selfish reasons, you only do it if you're interested. So if you love your child and you're interested in learning yourself, I don't think you can go wrong with the early years. I don't think you can actually fail. I don't think you ever do anything until you've. Much later in life, if at all, there will actually be a detriment to your child's education. If you're trying there are so many days that my mom wanted to give up because it was frustrating And she felt like it wasn't working, right? Which is it wasn't clicking with us and I think teachers feel that way in public school.

Timmy Eaton (2):

Yeah, but

Denny Burton:

But that being said, I don't think you can go wrong. So we're going to start out with Robin homeschooling and we'll adjust as we go. If it turns out that he's like my younger two brothers who really wanted to go back to go into high school right in junior high. And we can do that. Or we can, there's options.

Timmy Eaton:

And that's the best part. And, and I'm, I say the same thing and I've even gotten more and more, I'd say bold or confident that not only is it in the early years, but man, it's, I always call it a bummer. Like when people decide to go to school in high school, cause I'm like, no, man, that is the time to one be free of the cultural nonsense that goes on. But that's, that's my opinion. And then two. Liberate what you're going to learn and not be pigeonholed and controlled by some kind of government agenda or whatever else. And, but everyone has different thoughts on that. That's totally cool. But I just feel more and more confident about the early years for sure. Like just read to your kids, love them, spend time outside and. And be a family and then the flexibility and lifestyle. It just can't be matched. I know that from experience one and then just by talking to so many people and then the increase in homeschooling in the United States and Canada is definitely evidence of that. The last thing I wanted to ask you was just about, your counsel to like new homeschool families nowadays homeschooling is even trendy. It's not weird anymore. Like it's becoming trendy and that means a lot more curriculum being produced. That means a lot more people homeschooling. So that becomes overwhelming to a lot of families. So what would you tell them about what you said before, like what actually matters? What's your counsel to new homeschool families? Like even around your age, right? People are starting to think of that. What do you tell friends that are like, man, you did this. Tell us what we need to hear to, to know that it's a good way.

Denny Burton:

Yeah, that is a fantastic question. I will preface it with saying that. If I were to take a day and boil it down, we could probably have another hour long conversation would be worthwhile, so I am a just very adamant that keeping your love of learning for your child alive is if not the first priority, at least number two or three on the list, because. It allows one self esteem is just essential for Children. So if they cannot feel like they are failing at a subject, to have a level of learning will keep that self esteem high and have the same high will keep your level of learning high because you won't feel discouraged by subjects. So I would say one of the main Recommendations. If I was just jumping into homeschool and I had never done it before is I'd want someone to tell me what we just talked about before, where you really can't mess it up and truly no, look me in the eyes. You can't mess it up. Like If you love your child, don't worry about it. Cause I know that parents stress out of their minds. About ruining their child's chance it's a risk. It's a risk. It's so much easier to just be like, No, you know what, this is the system set up, we'll put them in the system, right? You have to actually go out of the system to one homeschool. And like you said, it's getting more trendy now and accepted. But, but I would say you can't mess it up. And then I'd say keep the level of learning alive. Allow your kid to direct a lot of the learning and then you can, it's like giving your kids vegetables, right? You can feed your kids vegetables without them really knowing that you're feeding them vegetables a lot of the time. Sometimes they won't know, right? You can't, you can only disguise spinach in so many ways, right? So sometimes you just have to do math and they're going to hate it, but you're going to do it with them and you'll get through it, but for the most part, I would say that if your kid wants to learn about why leaves fall off trees right now that time of year that is a worthwhile pursuit It will never matter for a career 99 percent of the time whether they know that or not It doesn't matter that I read education of a wandering man in any of the careers that I've done It doesn't really matter that I know that Walt Disney mortgaged his studio to do those things, right? Those are Some people would chalk that up to, that it doesn't apply to real life. And I strongly disagree. I think the fact that, that Edmund in the line, the witch and wardrobe can be redeemed and come back. Just as valuable as everyone else, even though it's not about a job, it doesn't matter for optometry or whether you want to be a lawyer, an entrepreneur, a composer, right? It doesn't have anything to do with music. It's important for kids to know those kinds of truths. And that's a great thing for parents to do is just seek out good things everywhere you go, and then they can fill in all the rest. They can learn how to compose or they can learn how to be a, an entrepreneur or cook crockpot meals or whatever they end up doing. We do it in life, right? But if you can see good things, keep the love of learning alive. And then honestly, don't beat yourself up if you take those three things, I think you will have a wonderful time homeschooling your kids.

Timmy Eaton:

Excellent. Oh, that is amazing. Counsel and advice and so much wisdom and added experience. This has been Denny Burton. You guys, I just want to give you a chance. And can you tell us like where can people find some stuff that you're doing? Tell us where to look you up and find Sherlock and anything else you're doing. Tell us.

Denny Burton:

Okay. Thanks. You can find Sherlock. We actually filmed a version of the musical and put it on YouTube for free for people to watch. So you can literally just Google Sherlock the musical and you'll find it on there. With my mug at the right and Stefan's at the beginning explaining that we're happy you're there to watch it. So you'll know it when you see it. And then, my music's on any streaming. Platform for Sherlock. I am going to be releasing some of my compositions soon. Not really for any reason other than just to share these are like compositions for the orchestral stuff that I've been doing. And that would also be on Spotify. So you could just look up Denning Burton, and that's my f full name Denny Burton on Spotify and or Apple Music, or Amazon Music, whatever. And that's

Timmy Eaton:

D-E-N-N-I-N-G? Yeah, Burton. That's correct. So awesome.

Denny Burton:

I don't go by it actually. I always you know me as Denny and so does everyone else. Yeah. I thought I'd use the full name for the Oh, for

Timmy Eaton:

sure, man

Denny Burton:

stuff. Yeah. And I'd love, for you to watch it., it's been a great project,

Timmy Eaton:

cool. Thank you so much. Thanks for taking time. Appreciate it. And like you said, I think we need to do at least one more of these at some time in the future. It was such a pleasure.

Denny Burton:

Thanks, Tim.

Timmy Eaton:

Thanks, brother. That wraps up another edition of This Golden Hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it if you would take a minute and give us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.