This Golden Hour

91. Craig Harrison and Your Child's Best Teacher

• Timothy Eaton

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In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Craig Harrison from Minnesota. Craig is an engineer, former Uber driver, homeschool father of two boys, and the author of Your Child’s Best Teacher: A Father’s Perspective on Home Education. As the principal home educator in his home, Craig has a unique perspective on homeschooling. In our discussion, we discover how Craig and his spouse decided that he would take on the role of primary educator of their sons. We also discuss the importance of a positive mindset in homeschooling, the role of family in education, and the broader societal impacts of homeschooling. Craig offers insights into balancing personal and educational aspirations, and he gives us his thoughts and advice about helping our children make decisions regarding various postsecondary and career paths.

Books
Your Child’s Best Teacher: A Father’s Perspective on Home Education
The Abolition of Man
Outliers

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Jordan Peterson


This Golden Hour
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Craig Harrison:

We've been able to be flexible, which is a great advantage of home education. And it's much, much better to have a positive reason to keep you going rather than just a negative reason. Reason why you're pushing back against because when it gets hard and it does get hard at times you have that, that strong positive to look forward to.

Timmy Eaton:

Hi, I'm Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six and doctor of education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out. But people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling. And homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today and enjoy this episode of this Golden Hour Podcast as you exercise, drive, clean, or just chill. You're listening to this Golden Hour Podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Craig Harrison from Minnesota. Craig is an engineer, former Uber driver, homeschool father of two boys, and the author of Your Child's Best Teacher, A Father's Perspective on Home Education. As the principal home educator in his home, Craig has a unique perspective on homeschooling. In our discussion, we discover how Craig and his spouse decided that he would take on the role of primary educator of their sons. We also discuss the importance of a positive mindset in homeschooling, the role of family in education, and the broader societal impacts of homeschooling. Craig offers insights into balancing personal and educational aspirations, and he gives us his thoughts and advice. about helping our children make decisions regarding various post secondary and career paths. Welcome back to this Golden Hour podcast. Very excited to have with us today. Craig Harrison coming to us from Minnesota. Thanks for being with us, Craig.

Craig Harrison:

Pleasure to be here.

Timmy Eaton:

Now that accent doesn't sound Minnesota. So maybe tell people real quick your origins.

Craig Harrison:

I was born and bred in New Zealand. We're up in the South Pacific and moved to Minnesota about 10 years ago. Okay.

Timmy Eaton:

All right. And then, and definitely tell us maybe more about your travels, but let me just give a brief And then you can add or delete anything from what I say here. So Craig is a father of two sons and he is the principal home educator in his family. So he's the principal homeschool parent. He was a former Uber driver for a short time and he is an engineer. And today I'm excited to talk about his book, which I highly recommend. And I'll talk about this throughout the podcast. The episode, your child's best teacher, a father's perspective on home education. And maybe I'll just comment and then you fill in. But the way that I got in touch with you, Craig, is that I was I'm basically I'm creating a course for home education fathers and 95 percent of home education situations are mom is the principal home educator. And so I wanted to see what has been written. And and I had written my own stuff, but I found your book and that's how I found you, read it, and then that's when I contacted you and said, I got to interview you. So anyway, that's the background of that. Such a well written excellent book, well researched, amazing quotations. I love the clarity of writing. So I highly recommend this to my audience and to anybody else. I think it's awesome. And just what you articulate about education in general is advantageous to anybody who's interested. So now that's my bio. Go ahead and say anything you want about yourself and your family, and then we'll jump into homeschooling in your book.

Craig Harrison:

Thanks Tim. Yes. I am bit unique in the sense of being a dad who's. Teaching of children. And that was one of the prompts for writing the book is that it was an unusual situation and I thought a unique perspective, but I thought even more unique than me being a father teaching my children was that I have a background as an engineer and engineers have a particular way of viewing the world. And a particular way of going about things. So I wanted to reflect that in the book. But the way that I got into teaching my children is is an interesting story. I know that everybody comes from a different background. a different perspective. There isn't a standard way of getting into home education, but mine is perhaps less standard than others. I never wanted to be a teacher. My mother was a teacher. I didn't have the patience for it. I couldn't understand when People didn't understand an issue. I didn't know how to teach them because I understood it. And why couldn't they they understand. And and my, my mother laughed when I was in my twenties, I did a short term mission to North Africa. And one of the things that I did while I was there was to To help out a mum who was homeschooling her three kids they're a missionary family and to give her a break I taught her children for one day a week. My mother thought that was hilarious that I actually had to teach. So unfortunately Sorry, how old

Timmy Eaton:

were you at the time?

Craig Harrison:

Probably about 25, mid to late 20s. And so unfortunately, my mum passed away before I started teaching my boys. She would have been a great help. But my wife and I moved to the U. S. in 2010. We had both completed Postgraduate degree. So I just completed an MBA. My wife had done a master's in international business in New Zealand, and we had one son at that stage. He was less than a year old and we moved to the United States to follow our dream, to look for that big job and to to work for a big firm. And We moved over here and I just couldn't find a job. I spent five years job searching, couldn't find anything. And there was one point and I remember The time, the moment that it happened, 3. 15pm, the 1st of January 2013, that we were in a fast food place, and one of our children had a meltdown in public, and I realised at that instant that one of his parents needed to focus on him. I had been consumed by the job searching I had progressively felt worse about myself as a father, not being able to provide for my family and my wife was doing some part time work to keep us afloat. And so neither of us were focused fully on our children. And at that instant, I knew that I needed to do that. My wife had been approached by companies to, to work full time. And so she took on a full time position and I took on the job of And so it wasn't something that I had wanted to do, but I knew that it needed to be done. I knew that the boys needed a parent to, to focus on them. Then when they got to school age. We had never thought about home schooling. That hadn't crossed our minds. Both my wife and I had been to public school. And so that was our default approach. We checked out local elementary schools. And we're expecting for our elders to be able to do that. To go to school there.

Timmy Eaton:

So real quick. How old were they at that fast food experience?

Craig Harrison:

So they were two and four years old. Okay. At that stage. And so when our oldest was four years old we were looking into public school and I was teaching him a little bit. He read really well and he. He was way ahead of other children at that age, but it was my wife's family that started talking about about home education. And I got that sinking feeling in my stomach because I knew that was going to be me. And so reluctantly at first, but we decided to try it out. We got some good advice from a friend who was. And she said, don't think about it as a lifelong commitment. Just take it a year at a time, see how it goes. And if it works out well, you can evaluate at the end of the year. So we did that. We're very pleased with how things went and we weren't familiar with how schooling worked in the US either. So we didn't have to navigate a foreign. School system. We didn't have to worry about the Minnesota winters with little kids getting on buses or walking to school and sub zero temperatures. And our eldest really blossomed over the year. Did very well. So we kept on going. And my youngest was about four years old. And he wanted to join in on the lessons as well But I thought he was a bit young so I put him off for a bit I discovered that my oldest was teaching him mathematics behind my back and he was halfway through Grade one mathematics by time I gave up and included him in the lessons as well, and you didn't know it I didn't know it. No.

Timmy Eaton:

That's really cool. Hey, before you keep going on that point, just real quick, you said that your mom's family told you to look into it. Where did that come from?

Craig Harrison:

My wife's side of the family and they had all been to public school as well, so that was our frame of reference. We really didn't know anybody that was Teaching their own kids. It was when you what homeschooling was, but didn't have any direct experience with it. So on my wife's side of the family, her she has three sisters and a number of children, and they're all younger than ours. So our children were the first to go through it, but they were the ones that started looking into it and getting interested in home education.

Timmy Eaton:

Okay. And and are they.

Craig Harrison:

They are.

Timmy Eaton:

Oh, cool. Very cool. Okay. So I didn't mean to interrupt. I just was wondering, that's interesting that somebody in the family was already into it a bit.

Craig Harrison:

Yeah. And my overall experience with home education, it has been a bit different to many people as well. So being a dad, I I felt different. We didn't get to know any other homeschoolers until maybe the last couple of years. So for most of the time that I've been teaching my boys, I've pretty much done it by myself. We didn't join a co op. It sounded to me like it would be a group where the mums got together and had the opportunity for that social interaction. And I couldn't imagine me sitting there as a dad trying to fit in and being an engineer as well. One of the things that. Engineers believe is that they know everything. And that's only a slight exaggeration because we do know an awful lot. So I didn't feel inadequate about teaching any subject. The experience was pretty much working on my own and in some ways it was quite isolating. And that was one of the reasons why I wanted to write the book is that I know there are a lot of other dads out there that are in that situation. They need to know that they're not alone, that there are others that are doing it and to know that there is support available as well. That was how I got into home education, but. At that stage, we just considered it as a as a choice that worked for us. It worked really well for our boys. They were doing well at their lessons.

Timmy Eaton:

So you hadn't been like reading, like stuff on philosophy of education and like looking at all the different home education writers and stuff like that. It was just, I'm just teaching my boys.

Craig Harrison:

Yeah, that's right. We we got a full curriculum for the first many years, in fact. And I just followed through with that, but I didn't get into any of the debate about home education public education or anything. It was just It worked out well for us. The boys were doing well. So we can carry on. One thing that I found really helpful is that we were told to, to think of a reason why we were homeschooling to think of a positive reason, because a lot of People, the first thing they think of is the public school situation. And, maybe their children have had an experience with bullying or something like that. It's very easy to think of negative reasons why you don't want to send your kids to a public school. But somebody suggested that, no, we should think in terms of positive. What's the positive reason why we're educating our children? And we decided that having the flexibility to travel was what we wanted. So my wife travels with her work. We've been able to go on road trips when she has meetings. We've been able to go back to New Zealand for months at a time. We've been able to be flexible, which is a great advantage of home education. And it's much, much better to have a positive reason to keep you going rather than just a negative reason. Reason why you're pushing back against because when it gets hard and it does get hard at times you have that, that strong positive to look forward to.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. I think I remember reading in the book that you said it's unlikely to carry on when it's not for an affirmative reason. And I think that would be our experience as well. I think that's really insightful. Yeah.

Craig Harrison:

Yeah, so I, I didn't read much at that stage and it was really when I started researching for the book that I thought deeply about education and what it is and what's involved with our children. The first motivation for writing the book, like I mentioned earlier, was that because I'm a dad and an engineer, I had this interesting perspective that I thought would be useful for people, particularly months to here, and it isn't that the way I do things Is any more right than the way anybody else does it, but knowing how somebody else does it gives people the opportunity to respond to that. And I think it can work positively or negatively. You can hear something and think that's a great idea. And maybe I want to include that as well. But you can hear something as well and think, I don't agree with that at all. And to me, that's a positive because it makes you think about why you don't agree with something. And if you've got a good reason, then that's great. But it's made you think about it. So I wanted to share the things that I've been thinking. But I realized as well that I needed to speak directly to you. to fathers who were teaching their children. There were a lot of things that I struggled with over the years and I needed to deal with them myself. I needed to figure it out myself and I wanted to share that with others as well. And I think in that respect, that mums that have given up a career are probably in a similar situation. I can't speak for them, I don't know how, how they're feeling about it, but I know that for generations, women have been told that in order to be really fulfilled, you need to have a career. That family is holding you back. And that we need to be like the men and have a career if we really want to be fulfilled in life. And so for women that have been hearing that message, that have become mums and have decided to give up that dream and focus on their family, I think there can be some of the sense of what I felt as well of giving up this dream. This career and this opportunity and prioritizing family. So I think a lot of moms will probably benefit from reading through that section in the book where I talk specifically to fathers.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. I was just going to say it's not just logistical things. Here's how you go about teaching math. You're talking about even like emotionally and psychologically and how does it affect you personally as the one being the principal educator. That's really good.

Craig Harrison:

Yes. Yeah. And then after I worked on that in the book, I thought what I should do is write a chapter on why why we've decided to educate our children. And as I read and researched further, that's when I got into reading about the debate and thinking about the basis for it.

Timmy Eaton:

And

Craig Harrison:

that became. A major part of the book and a major part of what I've talked about since then in terms of education. So up until that point, I wasn't an evangelist for home education. It worked for us. I was happy with it, but now my view has changed and I've realized the critical importance primarily of families. And it comes down to as much about families as it. And that's what he does about education because families are the the foundation of a strong society. And that's not the message that we're given these days where we're given the message that government is the answer that experts should be telling us what to do. And they can sort out society. That's not what I see in history. That's not what I see in the Bible. That's not what I see in the Hebrew world view. So I've called it the Hebraic worldview that is centred on family and that's the unit that forms community. The Greeks came along and centred things on at one end you have the individual, but primarily on institutions. And so public schools become the institutions that take care of education of children, and that's a very different mindset to families. Being the the unit that forms this cohesive unit of society and builds a strong society. And so regardless of whether schools are doing a good job or not regardless of whether I agree with the worldview that they're teaching or not, to me there's a fundamental difference between educating children within the family and sending them out into an institution.

Timmy Eaton:

And that belief dictates what one does and then the results that they're looking for. Yeah, I think that fundamental belief drives the rest of it.

Craig Harrison:

It does. So I think that's a big realization that I came to as I wrote the book. The the basis of it that I can see is something that CS Lewis noted in 1944 when He gave lectures and published them as the abolition of man, and he said the roots of that kind of thinking. Go back to the the age of enlightenment. The the rise of humanism where people separated religion from from academia and they believed that we could use our intelligence to progress the human race. But when you do that, you have people that are more intelligent than others. And so you want to listen to the people that are more intelligent. And so you get the situation where the experts should be in charge because they know so much more.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah.

Craig Harrison:

The reason that's happened is that you've separated morality and religion. From academia, and it's taken hundreds of years, but we can see that divide very clearly now. And the mindset that people have is that well, teachers are experts, the education system, they know what they're doing. So we should put our children with them to get the best education possible. What people have lost is the understanding of what education really is. That's thinking just in terms of intellectual matters, but education comes from the Latin, which means to lead out. And it's helping children to grow and develop, not just to learn stuff, but to develop Morality, to develop socially, to develop their religious understanding, as well as to develop their education. And you've been involved in in universities. I've been involved in universities for many years. It isn't that I don't appreciate academic learning, but I've come to understand that's only a part. Of what education means and we've split up the child and said teachers are the experts at academic stuff. So they should teach them academic stuff. The churches are experts at religious stuff. So we should send them to youth group and Sunday school and the church will teach them religious stuff. And what can we do? We can give them money and we can give them a home and things like that. And the results in society are that the family unit is broken down. So I believe that God gave us children, not because we're experts in raising children, but because we can love them. We can love and nurture them. And I believe that he wants us to. Educate our children on the same basis, not because we're experts in mathematics or science or language or anything like that, not because we're the academic learning experts, but because we love them. And if they're the children are in a loving home environment. That's the best environment for them to learn.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. If you don't mind, I just want to read this paragraph that you wrote. You said, if you love your children are committed to raising them well and want what's best for your kids, then you absolutely are your child's best teacher. Education is not only about academics. If we understand that education is training in character, faith and knowledge, and if you are training your child in character and faith, Then you certainly can train them in knowledge as well. And then I love what you said shortly after that. You said the key question is not whether you are skilled at being a classroom teacher, it's whether your home is the best environment for educating your child. If you decide it is, then don't compare yourself to a school teacher. A classroom full of pupils is very different to a house full of children. And so I like the fundamental basis that you Lay out so clearly in the book and what you're saying now that it's yeah, Whatever your worldview is and what your belief is that will fuel Your actions. And so somebody who takes, for example, God out of the picture they will define education quite differently than somebody who believes in God. And so anyway, carry on. I just, it resonated with your own words.

Craig Harrison:

Yes, so I enjoyed reading in, in your doctoral thesis actually about how students that have been homeschooled have adapted to learning at university and what has helped them and what hasn't. What stands out is that if students have learned how to learn. Then they can learn anything they want. So it doesn't matter if they haven't covered that, the particular stuff that they need to, they can always pick up on that. That's a key thing to me, that parents are adequate for teaching their children. They can do a good job. But even more important than that, I was just thinking this week about my mother. And she was mostly concerned about how, not what her children had learned, but how they turned out, how they turned out as people, how they turned out in terms of their faith. It didn't matter to her that I had five university degrees. It didn't matter to her what I was doing in terms of a career or anything like that. She wanted to know what I was like as a person. And I know that education is important. We know that we've been involved in education and and that is important, but it isn't the most important thing. And I think we've lost sight of that as parents that we've made schooling. I we've put it on a pedestal and thought that's the most important thing. Raising good children is going to be of more benefit to society than raising knowledgeable children. And I see a lot of educated fools out there that have university degrees and they might be intelligent, but they're foolish. Thank you.

Timmy Eaton:

I've heard it said that they when you have a lot of knowledge with low intelligence or low wisdom, you're just a clever devil.

Craig Harrison:

Yeah. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

Can I prompt you in a couple of areas and then just let you respond? So like, how versus what to think, what would you say about that?

Craig Harrison:

I have a background in science and so that, that influences the way I think about this when I was learning science, we understood that questioning things was the way that science works. So I see phrases these days trust the science. And I think no, that's the opposite of what science is. You don't know what science is if you're just trusting the science. Because science progresses. By questioning the prevailing narrative and by looking for an alternative solution. So in my view, children should learn how to think, not what to think. And that's something that isn't taught so much because Governments are much happier to have a compliant population than one that will question what they're doing.

Timmy Eaton:

Can I give you an application question of that principle of so it's more important to teach how than what to think. So how old are your boys now? They're 15 and 13 years old, 15 and 13. And so in their situation, what would be a practical application of that principle of something that you might do on a daily basis that, that illustrates this idea of it's more important for them to learn how to think than what to think.

Craig Harrison:

One thing that we do, we still read through texts together. And I, frequently dispute what is said in the textbook so I want them to understand that just because you're reading it in a textbook that somebody's written even what I've written in my book

Timmy Eaton:

doesn't make it law

Craig Harrison:

doesn't make it law. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with it. So I try and demonstrate that when when we're reading texts and doing courses in that way. But I guess the scariest thing as a parent is to think, okay, I want them to do that as well with the things that I'm teaching them. And that's where you have to really trust that over the years that you've been teaching them well and good character and things like that. But when they get to that point and thinking in terms of my Christian faith, Something that I've been aware of for a long time is that. We want our children to to follow us in our faith. And to develop their own faith. But they need to get to a point where they question it for themselves and decide for themselves that's what they're going to believe. And that's a scary point, but I would rather they work through that process within the family structure again, rather than when they head off to university and they're all by themselves.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. Cause it's going to happen there in a different way. And if you care about that, then do something about that.

Craig Harrison:

So I think as parents, we need to. To keep that in mind as well, that we shouldn't shy away from those kinds of discussions or that, that kind of approach of questioning things. But if we can do it within that environment, then our children will be much better able to to deal with things like that, particularly when they're challenged outside of the family.

Timmy Eaton:

So you'll be reading a text with them and then you'll question things that are being said and basically through that modeling, teach your sons, Hey don't just accept things at face value but ask questions. And maybe I would just add as a person of faith as well, and anybody who's listening from a faith background, I feel like there's this this contention or this tension between the idea of questioning and doubting. And if you're coming from the Judeo Christian thought that I don't really see much scriptural evidence for anything contrary to questioning. It's just that we're invited and we're human, so we will doubt, but we're never invited to doubt. In fact, the Lord says it opposite. He says, To doubt not and so I think that's an interesting even from an education perspective that it's great to question what he what does he do his whole ministry is he's questioning and And flipping things on their heads for the leading jewish leaders anyway, so I just love that idea of like question and then strive not to doubt. But like you said, either way, we're going to have doubts because of our human nature. And so through that, learning how to think we will come to a stronger sense of what we are ourselves and our children believe. And I think you'll have a firmer witness of what you believe is true or not. That's good. Can I throw another prompt at you? The idea of education is not neutral. You talk about that in the book. I love the quotes used for that. What do you mean by that? What would you have our listeners understand from your perspective that education is never neutral,

Craig Harrison:

it's not neutral. terms of the worldview with which it's presented. So anything that is presented comes from a particular worldview. And again, going back to the enlightenment we have this misunderstanding. that facts and knowledge are neutral, but they're not there. They're still placed within a particular worldview. And that determines what we believe to be true. What we believe not to be true. So it isn't possible to teach something from a neutral perspective. And public education has portrayed itself as teaching from this neutral perspective. So they don't get into. Maybe debates about religion or something like that, but there needs to be some sort of ethical worldview behind it. And if if you say that all all worldviews are valid, that's the worldview, that's the perspective, that's the value that you're teaching. So there's no way to get around the fact that all education. Is presenting a particular worldview. So the question to ask is what worldview is being presented, not whether.

Timmy Eaton:

And what do you think about that? And we don't do that well, I love what you said early in the interview. You said we present it not so that people can agree with us, but so they can respond to it. But when you teach it as law, because it's such a clear agenda, then it's hard for people to be able to respond because there's repercussions for certain responses. Yes.

Craig Harrison:

I think that's the critical point to, to keep in mind. And one of the reasons why I think everybody should consider educating their own children, because I talked about the importance of educating children within the family structure. But one of the other points is. To educate them within the worldview that we want to pass on to them, if they go to a public school, they're going to be spending a lot more time outside of the home than with us. And so the worldview that they are going to absorb is going to come from outside of the home. The family unit.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. Do you remember you, you referenced the 10, 000 the 10, 000 hour rule. Do you remember the actual statistics? What was that? Was it 10, 800 hours that they will experience education outside the home in a typical K to 12?

Craig Harrison:

Yeah, it would be at least that. Yeah. So the 10, 000 hour rule was introduced by Malcolm Gladwell in his 2008 book outliers.

Timmy Eaton:

Yes.

Craig Harrison:

And he suggested that if you want to become an expert at something, you need to commit 10, 000 hours to it. So if you want to become a concert pianist, or if you want to excel in sport or whatever it is. 10, 000 hours is the amount of time that you need to put into it. And if you calculate the amount of time that children spend in school conservatively, it will be at least 10, 000 hours, probably more 16, 000 or wow.

Timmy Eaton:

And to think that there's not this biased worldview that's being presented and, cast upon very formative brains would be foolish.

Craig Harrison:

Yes, that's right. So the question there is that they're going to become experts in the worldview of the environment that they're in for that long.

Timmy Eaton:

Oh, that's really good.

Craig Harrison:

So that's the point that I think the families to consider is coming from a Christian perspective, we obviously want to pass on a Christian worldview, but it doesn't have to be that. It could be in terms of your cultural values, it could be in terms of wanting to affirm children as individuals or whatever it is. You lose control of that if your children are outside of the home for so much of their formative years.

Timmy Eaton:

Yes, thank you very much. Yeah, you're right. No matter what, there is a worldview being, propagated for whatever you expose your children to, it's happening. And so you just have to make a decision. Do I want influence in that? Or how much influence do I want in that? And how little influence? Because I, what I think, and I think you mentioned something like this in the book The default is to go, Oh, I send my kid to school because it's time for them to go to school, but that unintentional way of approaching it is intentional in that's a decision. Your decision not to be intentional is a decision. That will definitely impact your children's education and not just their education, but their worldview, their mindset, their thinking, and their way of interaction. And so it's a choice. And I think that's what we have to let all families know. And so I tend to agree with you. I think more and more, I used to say no to each his own. And I, and of course, that's the only thing you can say. However, my, my. Exhortation would be looking to homeschool and and I know I'm biased, but I think it's just it's ideals. And people always say every situation is different. I go, I know, but universally, I think it's the ideal to strive for.

Craig Harrison:

And that's something that Jordan Peterson is, has talked about that. We need to have this ideal and because we're imperfect people, there will always be. a fringe of tolerance needed around the ideal because we can never match perfection. We're just human, but we shouldn't throw away the ideal just because we or other people cannot match it completely. So I definitely think that parents need to consider the question of education much more carefully. We're just defaulted in generations past and sending our children to school. We were aware of what's happening in school now, but we need to think carefully about the education question because by not making a decision, we are making a decision.

Timmy Eaton:

I just wanted to maybe conclude with a couple questions about your family your sons are 15 and 13 from the sounds of it and with such tailored customized learning I can only think that they are not because I care about comparing but just because it gives you an idea of where they're headed I can assume that they're even prepared now for some university level learning. So what have you guys talked about as far as post secondary either schooling? Do you like university or university based on certain conditions career choices? How are you approaching life after homeschool?

Craig Harrison:

What I've noticed in the United States is that there's just this default position that you finish high school, you go off to university. They call it college over here. And We have talked about going to university, but we don't want to assume that as a default position. So I would hope that my boys do go to university but we've talked about alternatives to that. For example, if they went to a trade school for a couple of years, learned a trade, they would never be looking for work for the rest of their lives. They could work their way through university. They could earn money anytime they wanted if they Learn to be a builder or a chef or a hairdresser or something like that. Electrician, yeah. Yep. So we've talked about that as a good step, whether or not they go to university. We've talked about taking a year off and doing something like a missions trip or a there's some entrepreneurial activity or something like that before going to university so that when they do go to university, they'll have some experience behind them. We've talked about if there's something in particular that they're wanting to learn, you don't have to go to a university to achieve that learning anymore. Especially in the day we live. Yeah. There are short courses. There are lots of other ways. Of attaining that learning rather than just going off to university. So we have talked about different options. I'm not sure which way they will end up going.

Timmy Eaton:

So why go to university? How does your family think through that? What would be a. A good reason to attend university.

Craig Harrison:

A lot of the reasons I think are very valid, but they're not necessarily what you actually learn. Because in my mind, you can read a book, you can do an online course, you can learn the content in different ways. But the university experience also does add things like networking. The network that you create at university can be something that influences you for the rest of your life. Yes. So that's a factor which is important. The the experience of learning in that environment the sort of, Pressure of completing courses and assignments and things like that to deadlines that's valuable to learn as a skill as well when you go into the workforce.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. Not as many people will formalize their learning unless they are compelled by a structured class and a assignment and a deadline.

Craig Harrison:

Yeah. What

Timmy Eaton:

about in the form of, are you biased your spouse and you in, if they did attend university. Are you biased in the type of degree to pursue?

Craig Harrison:

No we're not. My, my wife went to a really good university in DC, Georgetown. We both went to Auckland University in New Zealand. We've done, we've studied a number of different areas. I've done science, geology business. And so there isn't a particular track that, that we want them to take. In, in terms of the type of university as well, think it's a very important choice. It's an interesting choice in the U. S. because there are so many universities. In New Zealand, there are like seven to choose from. You don't get much choice at all. Yeah. If you're going to go. So you can think in terms of a large campus, a small campus different parts of the country. And to be honest, navigating that is it's fairly daunting since we've never done that before. It is.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah, it is daunting. I've been talking with lots of my peers and friends because we have kids in a similar situation. 11 to 21. And I feel like one thing that has been helpful for me to hear is this idea, the principle of begin with the end in mind and like what, I really do think that our children need to think a lot about what life are you wanting? Because that is a choice. And I think that fuels the present. I think that's helpful for your sons to think and anyone's just to go. If I really want a very abundant life temporally, then I need to make a decision that actually leads to that. And if I, you know, how many children are, not that you control that completely, but how many would you like to have and your spouse and so on. So that, that idea of working backwards and going, if this is the life I'm likely to pursue and you can adjust, obviously, then that can fuel those decisions that you make not only about university and. And degrees, but like whether or not you do a trade or whatever else. And so the principle again is begin with the end in mind.

Craig Harrison:

I do agree with that point of making sure you know where you're heading, but I also am not against people going to university for the experience. Now I am in the US, given the cost of it, but if they're going to pay for it themselves and they want to spend four years just enjoying the learning. That, to me, is fine, and when I went to Bible college, I heard the argument you don't need a theology degree to become a pastor or anything like that. That's true, but you're spending dedicated time reading the Bible, learning about God, and that is valuable. And doing science, I studied physics. And you don't study physics because you think you're going to get a good career out of it. You study physics because you love it and so I'm quite happy for my boys to go to university and do something that they're interested in. But they will be paying for it themselves. So they need to think it's worthwhile.

Timmy Eaton:

And no learning is wasted. And I definitely agree with that. And I think whether it's at a university, formal learning, no learning is wasted. I just hope that more universities and teachers are dedicated to how to think instead of dictating what we think, what would you say is what has been probably the biggest challenge and the biggest blessing of choosing the homeschool way of living and educating?

Craig Harrison:

The biggest challenge was dealing with with myself as a parent and committing to what's best for my children. So for too long in the homeschool journey, I was focused on myself. And what I wasn't achieving and what I had given up. And that reflects in how I treated my boys and the way that I taught. And so the biggest challenge for me is what I wrote right at the end of the book. The key takeaway. It's that your children will remember how you make them feel much longer than they will remember what you taught them. And I had to keep telling myself that I need to make sure that this is an enjoyable loving environment for them, because I can't take out my frustrations on them and crack the whip and force them to learn stuff and maybe they'll learn it and get the right answers, but they won't have been in the environment that they will cherish and enjoy. And if they're loved and and are in a secure environment like that, no matter how much or how little they learn, that will impact them far more deeply.

Timmy Eaton:

Excellent. Oh, that's so well said. And then biggest blessing or benefit, however you want to view that.

Craig Harrison:

Yeah. The greatest benefit is just spending the time with your children. Family is so important and it's relationships are what fulfill us as humans. So if we're investing in family relationships, that's going to be something And that's for the rest of our lives. So you mentioned that I used to drive, work as an Uber driver for a number of years, listen to the conversations and I came to the conclusion that for most people, children are an inconvenience that they have because it, it fulfills some sort of societal norm, but it isn't something that they're committed to. And if they can get a babysitter so that they can go out and have some fun then they'll do that. And they don't want their children to impact their lifestyle too much. That isn't a recipe for having a fulfilled life as you get older. Um, Those children are not going to be the ones that look after you. Whereas if you're dedicating. Your time and your efforts to develop those relationships. When your children are young, you're going to benefit from that for the rest of your life.

Timmy Eaton:

The final question I have, and again, I'll just say one more time that I highly recommend Craig Harrison's book, your child's best teacher, a father's perspective on home education. I just think it's so well written. It's like one of the few books that I. Don't know how you read books, Craig, but I will see, okay, how am I going to read everything in here? Or am I going to skim it? And this one I read the whole thing and cause I think it's that well written. And so I just highly recommend it to my audience and anyone else. The last question I was going to ask Is based on your experience and I'm sure your wife and you have had this experience where people come up to you and say, man, I'm thinking about homeschooling, what do I do? And so what is your counsel to new homeschool families? What do you tell them? When they feel overwhelmed or like inadequate, or, I don't have a teaching degree, what's your counsel?

Craig Harrison:

It's really important to understand why you are here. Choose to do something because if you don't have a very clear why when it gets tough, that's when you'll give up, it'll be easier to go back to the default. So the first thing I would encourage parents to do is to think really carefully about the purpose of education. What are they wanting to achieve for their children in terms of education? And what is the best way to achieve that in their family situation? I think that children will do much better within that family structure, within the family environment. And if you understand, if you have a strong enough why, then you'll work out how to go about it. Because I know it isn't easy. It means dedicating time for me. It when my boys, my oldest was getting up to school age, I thought, okay, that'll give me time to maybe go back to job searching or doing something else. Yeah. And that's why the realization that I was going to be teaching them hit me hard as well because I thought, no, this is going to tie me up for the next 10, 15 years. So it's a big commitment. And if you don't understand why you're doing it, it will be much harder to keep it.

Timmy Eaton:

Thank you so much. That's so good. You guys, this has been Craig Harrison. It's been a very enjoyable interview. I'll give you the last word before we part and then we'll adjourn.

Craig Harrison:

I'm encouraged by the opportunities that Home education office in terms of making an impact on society in terms of our families and in terms of our personal lives as well, and I think There are a lot of practical Resources to help us with the how to go about it. That's great And people should take advantage of that. There are a lot of concerns about Education in general and people are reacting against that but I think The final message I would make is to think of it in positive terms, in terms of the impact that it will have on your own family, your relationships with your children, how it will benefit them, and even beyond that, how it's going to impact society, because if we have a young generation that are growing up sure of themselves able to think for themselves and capable having good moral values, good moral compass, then that's going to have a huge impact on society going forward as well.

Timmy Eaton:

Thank you. Very well said. Is there anywhere that people could connect with you? Is there any way to get in touch with you if we have interested listeners?

Craig Harrison:

Yes, I have a website with more information about the book that's at books. qrx. group books. qrx. group and I have a profile on LinkedIn. You can look for Craig Harrison on LinkedIn. And that's the best way to contact me.

Timmy Eaton:

Excellent. That's great. And we'll put some of that, that in the notes as well. So thank you again for being with us. And hopefully we'll talk to you again. Thanks for the conversation. Have a wonderful evening. You too. That wraps up another edition of This Golden Hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it if you would take a minute and give us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.