This Golden Hour

101. Transformations Through Homeschooling with Sue Music

• Timothy Eaton

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In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Sue Music from Calgary, Alberta. Sue shares her journey as a homeschooling mother of three, detailing her initial uncertainties, the transition from traditional schooling, and the unique learning opportunities this lifestyle has afforded her children. We discuss the challenges and rewards of homeschooling, emphasizing the importance of flexibility, community support, and staying true to one's own family's needs and values. Sue offers practical advice for new homeschoolers and highlights the positive transformations she has witnessed in her children, particularly her eldest son, who thrives both academically and personally outside of conventional school settings. You will enjoy Sue’s warm and personable delivery and her ability to make her experiences so relatable.


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Sue Music (2):

I have been blown away by the homeschooling community on Facebook, but also throughout Calgary as I've been connected. I cannot believe how much time people will take out of their own schedule to answer your questions, help you out. Yeah, it is such a supportive community.

Timmy Eaton:

Hi. I am Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six and Doctor of Education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years, and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out, but people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue. New homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling and homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today and enjoy this episode of This Golden Hour podcast. As you exercise, drive clean or just chill. Welcome back to this Golden Hour podcast today. We are very excited to have with us Sue Music from Calgary, Alberta. Thanks for being with us, Sue.

Sue Music:

Thank you

Timmy Eaton:

and what an awesome name. Do you get that often? I remember when we met you, my wife and I, we were like, oh, that name's so awesome.

Sue Music (2):

Yes. I always say, please don't expect anything musical from me. My kids may, but not me.

Timmy Eaton:

And that's your married name. What's your maiden name?

Sue Music (2):

Wanderer.

Timmy Eaton:

Wanderer. Okay. Yeah,

Sue Music (2):

ma. My maiden name's ler. My married name is Music. Yes.

Timmy Eaton:

Were you excited to, to get that last name or,

Sue Music (2):

yes. When I first met him, I didn't believe that was his last name. Show me his id. And then for a while I would say I married him for the last name and he didn't like that. So I don't see that anymore.

Timmy Eaton:

I don't think I've ever met anyone with the last name music, that's very cool.

Sue Music (2):

Yeah. Thank you.

Timmy Eaton:

Let me just give a little brief intro. So Sue is a homeschool mother of three. And like I said, she lives in Calgary and she and her husband together do a little network marketing on the side. While her husband, Chris works as well, has a job, and they've been at this for how many years. How long have you been homeschooling?

Sue Music (2):

We'll have finished our sixth year.

Timmy Eaton:

Wow. Awesome. Anything else you want to add to the the bio?

Sue Music (2):

It was never our plan to homeschool. It was something that I think that both my husband and I avoided when we thought we might need to. And then the longer we've been doing it, the more we believe in it.

Timmy Eaton:

And when you said might need to, what do you mean by that?

Sue Music (2):

I think for a while we thought that like we could have our children and our eldest specifically was in the school system make it work. And the realization that they're like, it would not be good for his self-image long term, for his style of learning, for the potential that he had. We just realized that. We might need to find a different method. It might not be the school system that's the problem. It might just be him.

Timmy Eaton:

Not the

Sue Music (2):

problem, but no, yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

The whatever, the challenge of it. Yeah. And your children a rage from eight to 14. So that was when he was about eight years old then, is that right?

Sue Music (2):

That's right. He'd finished grade two, but I would say in grade one we were realizing, oh, maybe this isn't the right fit for him. And then by grade two, middle of the year, it was very much okay, this is, we're just gonna finish the year out and then by grade three take him out.

Timmy Eaton:

And so you and I have talked a little bit about that and you shared with me an awesome blog post but tell us about it. What, why didn't it fit your son? What's, what was the deal? And then how did you go about getting into homeschool with that?

Sue Music (2):

I think first off, like ever since our son was born, you could tell he is a little bit different. He was very busy and. Just his mind seemed to move really fast. He would pick things up and everyone thinks their kid is really smart, and it was our first child. So you're like, wow this kid is seems to be really intelligent, picking things up really quickly. Getting himself into a lot of trouble at young ages just through problem solving ways of how to get the outcome he desired. Yes. All the traditional kind of parenting strategies in terms of providing a distraction when they are a little bit upset about taking something away. No, he was like lady, what are you trying on? Me? Didn't work

Sue Music (3):

on him.

Sue Music (2):

No, never. And then I had thought potentially there might be some like a DHD there. As much as I don't love labels, and so I didn't necessarily want to go down that path at the time. And the plan was always to, put him into school. I was, to be honest, like counting down the days it, as far as okay, those, six hours of freedom that he would go to school and I love my kids, but I felt like that was a great place for them to be Yeah. For those that, and free up my time to do other things.

Timmy Eaton:

Totally.

Sue Music (2):

And yeah, like I, the first week we got a call from the principal's office and he had done something and kicked out of class and it was like a regular occurrence. And in kindergarten, which is they're just plane. Yeah. What is the problem here? And I even shared in that blog post that. I had an experience even in my childhood with a boy who was really intelligent and there were so many good qualities about him, but very misunderstood. Always kicked outta class. Didn't do necessarily very well academically, but mainly in my opinion,'cause he didn't care. And he was the kid that, started working at Sport Check at 14 or 15 and was making more than most young adults because he was so good at sales but you put him in a classroom and he was just tantrums and trouble having a hard time with relationships and he had a DD and and yeah. And so I recognized like a lot of my son in him like this simultaneously. Yeah. And later on through life as like this friend of mine, as he aged, I just saw how hard he was on himself. And of course, I don't know all the things that happened at home, but I know the school and the teachers and even his peers didn't help when you're right, majority of your time around people that are telling you you're bad or you're misbehaving or you're naughty or all these things. And so I think there's that simultaneously with what was happening with our own child. And then my own experiences too. And I didn't personally love all parts of school. I questioned a lot of it. So all of that kind of came together. And then this idea of homeschooling. And we had a few friends that, actually only one, because I had grown up only knowing two homeschoolers through playing competitive soccer. And they were always a little bit different, or my perception and my husband's perception having gone through public school is homeschoolers are weird. So we we didn't wanna do that because that, but the more I reflected on why did I think they were weird? It was like, it's only because they were a lot more mature than the rest of us at that time. Yeah. They didn't get caught up in the gossip and the drama and all of those different things and they were a little bit more levelheaded and so you're like, oh, it's just, it is interesting as you go along and reflect back.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. People always frame it in the socialization context.

Sue Music (3):

Yes.

Timmy Eaton:

And I think it's the wrong context because. What I think people are really saying is what's culturally acceptable, which is a part of socialization, but what's culturally acceptable in schools, a lot of times it's not like parents are like pro, whatever that is. And so it's like you said, it's oh they communicate well with adults and they have been taught that to not like, be a part of what's, just the flow of everything that everybody does or something. And I'm sure there are some that are definitely socially weird and just just but as a, as an educator in the system for 20 years now, I the school has no corner on that. Like I'm saying there's a lot of weird kids everywhere and who's to say, who's weird? And so anyway, I. I, I think most people are over the socialization thing. It's just people are different.

Sue Music (2):

I totally agree. Yeah, I had heard the same thing it was a couple years ago where I saw something like, weird kids in school or weird kids outside of school, like there's just quirky kids. I like to call it even quirky because Yeah. And I would even consider myself like that sometimes there's a level of quirkiness that's really endearing and that you want to develop more of Yes. And welcome more of, and there's just. Such great giftings in that when we label things like as weird or perceive things that way, I think sometimes we're missing a big part of it. And there's yeah. Some great gifts or great strength in that.

Timmy Eaton:

Especially it's, I've just, the older people get they, they kind of see that the kid who has the autonomy and the self actualization to be different and to really like what they, like are the cool kids. And but that'll never go over in a public school because,'cause you have to walk the linemen. You have to conform. And so I always celebrate the kids that you could care less about that stuff'cause they're so cool and they don't even know it. You're like, no, that's actually the cool kid, but all the rest of these kids don't see it. And yeah. Anyway, but who's to say? That's always based on somebody's own. I wanted to ask you something real quick and then continue on with how you segued into homeschooling, but as you were describing your son in kindergarten and like your friend growing up, and I remember like my brother-in-law has had a very similar situation and people that have learned more about a DD and A DHD see the, like you said, the gift that it is or that it can be when it's honed and when it's celebrated and channeled. But is it just true that it's just matter of fact, like when you have a school class of 30 kids or whatever it is, it's just not a fit for a kid that has that Yeah. It's not a mean thing or a bad thing or it's, it just is, it's just no, that's just not how, that's not, they're not gonna flourish there. It's it's like a kid who's totally hands on and has no interest in reading, writing that kind of thing doesn't mean he's dumb. And so often we label them that way, but the reality is it's just not a fit.

Sue Music (2):

Yeah I could go on and on about the realization of that over the course of kind of the three years of trying to force it with kindergarten, grade one and grade two, where I would have these conversations with these teachers and educators and principals at times, and majority, unfortunately, would try to be like no, we're gonna mold this kid to fit. We're gonna find the support system. Let's get a label on him. Let's get some medication. Maybe if we get a label, we'll get a little bit of extra funding. Which is why we went down the road of getting the diagnosis of A DHD for him because we thought, okay, if you can get some extra support, which then ended up not being true, they didn't get any additional support or and

Timmy Eaton:

they're not trained in that way. They don't actually know how to deal with it. They don't know how to help a kid in that situation so often.

Sue Music (2):

No, and I think some of them too, they're just tired, right? Some teachers are just tired. They have stuff sometimes going on in their own life. Like my experience and even in my own education, it's my opinion, but like the best teachers are like the young ones right outta school that, don't have any family commitments yet. That it's just this is their life. They're excited. Yes. Or sometimes the retired grandmas that they're not retired, they're close to retirement, they love the idea like they're empty nesters, but they're, the majority of their life revolves around. Their daytime jobs.

Timmy Eaton:

Totally.

Sue Music (2):

And yeah,

Timmy Eaton:

cause teachers could even mean well, and even if they totally understood it and they go, I know this kid has gifts and stuff like that, but I. But he's making it really hard for my class. Yeah. And this is brutal. So and they gotta go home every day and face that. And so even ones that are well-meaning, it's just a reality. There's, yeah. It's just not a fit. That's all it is.

Sue Music (2):

Yes. And like this, I do remember like very distinctly, because you'd have these principals and educators saying, let's make this work. Let's make it fit. Let's find accommodations. It doesn't work. So it's just you just need to leave the class because you're disrupting everyone else. And I'm so thankful for the grade two teacher that we had. Because we did investigate in the process. I was like, okay, I'm gonna kind of shop for different options. Let's look at private schools. If it means that we need to create more income to give him the best opportunities, then we'll figure that out. But let's see. And across the board, I found that classroom sizes were too big to accommodate his needs. And it was the grade two teacher that we had that was just an answer to prayer. And she was just a lovely woman who had a sense of humor about our eldest son. And she took me up on a coffee and I just picked her brain on him, on just her under the school system and like how we can make this work. And just honestly, and I'm so thankful because she said to me, look like the school system is not designed for kids like yours. She's like. I am so busy trying to get these grade twos that cannot read yet. They can't write yet, they can't read yet, and my responsibility is to get them to the place so that next year they're able to like, at least keep up. And so it does the greatest disservice to your average and especially above average student, because your son can read, your son can write, he does math fine. He questions everything because he's what is the point of this? And then the answer of so cool, you just have to do it, is not good enough for him. So I have to send him outside because he's distracting my other students that are not reading yet and are not writing yet. And so I would love to spend more time with him and oftentimes I'll hear. People will come, have come up to us over the years who get to know our eldest son, and they're even just glimpses of it. Just gosh, your son is so cool. Like, how he thinks is so cool.

Sue Music (3):

Yes.

Sue Music (2):

And I was like, yes, he's a cool kid. He's very challenging to parent. And we pray over our kids every night. And with him I've said since he was a baby, I cannot wait to see what you do one day.'Cause I don't know what you're gonna do. And part of homeschooling and the decision to do that is develop the character and the morality, because my husband and I often talk we do not worry that kid will be able to make an income for him himself.

Timmy Eaton:

We just

Sue Music (2):

want him to do good things. Just

Timmy Eaton:

be good.

Sue Music (2):

And yes, hopefully serve God's kingdom in some way and. Yeah. And do something great to use those gifts for good. So I was just thankful for that conversation that led to being like, oh, okay, if I continue to try to force what do they say, a round peg in a square hole? You're like, it's going to be pointless. It feels like it's just gonna be constant busy work. And I think that he already knows it. He wants to be homeschooled, so why are we fighting it?

Timmy Eaton:

That's cool that he wants to, because there's a lot of kids that don't socially because while they have the gift of a DH, ADHD or something else they do struggle to not be, even though, more and more, that's just not much of an issue, like I'm saying.'cause kids can participate in tons of social activities that keep them in the know or whatever with their friends. But some kids struggle with that. So that's cool that your son is desiring to be homeschooled. So then so what was the process? What did you guys do? How did you actually go, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna do this we're gonna homeschool.

Sue Music (2):

Yeah. I had. One great friend who is, a handful of years older than me. Her kids are older. She'd done a little bit of homeschooling, but I really respected her. I believe in like mentorship and finding good people, but I'm also careful of who I take advice from. It's pretty much if you have the fruit on the tree, I'm listening. If not, I will be respectful, but I probably won't ask you many questions. And so that's a good way

Timmy Eaton:

to say it.

Sue Music (2):

Yeah. And so I approached her and I said, Kay, look like what? I don't, I, I feel like a fish outta water. I feel like this is what we're the direction we need to go, but I don't even know where to start. And she had recommended the a h conference. Because she was in BC and she's it's different in every province, so you need to figure out how it works in Alberta. I couldn't speak to that but I've heard they have one of the best conferences in Canada. So I attended the Ahe conference and I attended the Thursday night where it was like a new to homeschoolers conference. And then I know in Calgary and Alberta, Judy Arne does, did some like sessions on unschooling specifically, which the name, I don't love the name. I did love them then. I don't love the name now. I, but conceptually I love the concept of it. Yes. And so I just attended all of these sessions with a really open mind to learn and to feel as though, okay, this is where I think we need to go, and then we're just gonna figure it out as we go. And then I was recommended Facebook. I wasn't on Facebook at the time, actually. I had gone off of it for, gosh, probably. Six or seven years. Yeah. And I was very happy to be off all social media. I know. But, and everywhere I asked, they were like, no, you ha to be connected to find social activities. Everything is on Facebook.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. Just use it for that.

Sue Music (2):

Yes. And it's true, like the longer I've been homeschooling, I often get asked, where did you find out about this? Or I'll share things with friends or like, how did you hear about this? I was like, Facebook, it's all Facebook. Yeah. I'm a part of so many groups and I now know how to go through it to like. Quickly and efficiently and what catches my eye. But yes, it's all through Alberta Homeschooling Facebook group is like a very large group. And I often tell people who are intrigued about homeschooling, I'm like, just go on as an observer to start. And it's like a, what do they say, like a dumpster fire where you have to go through here and there and vet what you wanna read and what you don't and not get caught up in for sure. Yeah. Certain things. But there also is a lot of really great information. And post a question if you are unsure. I have been blown away by the homeschooling community on Facebook, but also throughout Calgary as I've been connected. I cannot believe how much time people will take out of their own schedule to answer your questions, help you out. Yeah, it is such a supportive community.

Timmy Eaton:

Yes, i've noticed the same thing. It's like you're not just getting a small talk answer. And I think it's'cause we love it. Like we're we're passionate about it and we care. And when somebody shows interest, you're kinda like, oh, I'm so glad you're interested.'cause this is a great way to do things. And so you get excited. Yeah. And

Sue Music (2):

Just to add to that, I was like, yeah. Even now I think to myself like if I can find moments of time, and sometimes I make the time to make these posts on Facebook or to answer questions or even to do something like this.'cause a lot of it is outta my comfort zone. I'm like, I just know how much value is added to me, and then how challenging it can be to just be like, I don't even know where to start. And anytime someone I know asks and I offer it often if you wanna grab a cup of coffee and I will tell my story and then you'll have to figure it out from there. But I'll send you the links to all the places that I've gone to and the first steps and because so much of it was done for me and then, there's like that domino effect.

Timmy Eaton:

Definitely. And as you say that, that's definitely the reason we started this was like Sarah was being asked all the time and I was too, but her more. How do you do this and why? We're seeing with your kids what, what's going on? And you, when you say it you say it so much. And that's why we started this.'cause it gives people just a chance to tell their story and to share. And then, and I know it's gonna be so helpful to so many families because we all have a unique experience, but there are common threads that support all of us. And yeah. So what did your husband think, like when you first started and what were the holdups and what about like your families, like your family and his family and so on?

Sue Music (2):

I would say both of our families had different reactions. I think that. The way I was raised was very much we're gonna prepare you as much for life as we can in your childhood, and then trust that you can make great decisions as you're an adult and growing, and we'll always be here for you. But my parents invested so much into my brother and I of creating confidence in us and preparing us for life. And I'm so grateful for that. So then, when the decision came about to being like, okay, I think we need a homeschool corps. And they obviously knew all of the struggles we were having, and they were both like, okay good for you. Yeah. Awesome. If you need us, let us know. But they were like, there's no judgment there. And it's your life. You're just like we're here to support you and we can see it. My dad was like, I hated school too.

Timmy Eaton:

I've actually seen that when I, the more I talk to people about it, the more I see that grandparents are like. You would think they would be staunch about no, they need to be in school. And there are some like that, but I find that the majority are actually cool with it and then end up loving it. Like they might start off oh yeah, no do what you think is right. And then they're like, this is like so awesome. My wife's parents are just totally regretting that they didn't know about it. They would've totally done it for sure. Yeah. Anyway I can relate to that.

Sue Music (2):

But the interesting part too is I find with them specifically is my parents were business owners for a good portion of their life. And and I think that through that. Just idea of entrepreneurship and owning a business. There's a level of which, you don't necessarily need to be within the boundaries of what someone tells you to do to show up. Yes. Whereas like on my husband's side of the family, my husband has only known working a job until we started our business years ago. And again, he loved the idea of the outcome, but to understand how to discipline yourself in your off hours, your by yourself, it was like a huge learning curve for him. And even homeschooling too. Like he was like, this is so different than what,

Timmy Eaton:

we,

Sue Music (2):

my family does like none of us. W would do this. They all have worked their nine to fives and very much that structure and and him and I think are drawn to each other for the kind of the opposites attract parts, the things that matter we align with. But also I think we're both very intrigued with how we're so different and yeah. I was very much like I live outside of the box and to get me in the box is really challenging. Whereas he has to really stretch himself to go outside of the box

Timmy Eaton:

that, that about matches me and Sarah. It's the same. Yeah. Like she's more outside the box and I'm more in.

Sue Music (2):

Yeah, I think we have lots of similarities in that regard. And to be honest, the first year was really difficult because we had a lot of pressure from his side of the family as far as how do we know that we're doing this right? And I don't have a teaching degree and all of this stuff, and I wasn't concerned about the teaching degree. No. But when you're constantly hearing it and you're like, I don't know what I'm doing. If someone were say, do you know what you're doing? You're like, no, I don't. But based on his experience in school, I actually don't think I could be screwing up much more, to be honest, because nothing was happening there either. If anything, he was developing less and less. Self-image. You know what I mean? His self-image was deteriorating.

Timmy Eaton:

And but that's a common thread that I have been seeing in all these interviews that I'm doing and just talking to people constantly. The common thread I see, but a among homeschool moms typically is that they just use more common sense. That's how I would say it. They're just like, yeah, like I don't have a teaching degree. Who cares? And people like abandon common sense because they're so in the conventional way of thinking. And that's why deschooling is essential. You have to transition from that thinking, because if not, then you're stuck in that. That's why it's not fit for entrepreneurs, like you were saying, like your parents or whoever. Because you have to think like for yourself. And you have to and I know that probably sounds. Condescending to people that are conventional.'cause that's me. I can totally relate to that. But just start asking common sense questions. Like how much of what you're learning in school is translating into career, life and university. And just like basic questions, and we just abandoned that'cause we're like, no,'cause this is the way you do it. And there's not real much thought behind that. And so I'm glad to hear people like you exist and I feel like it's definitely increasing all over the US and Canada. So that's a, I think it's a good sign

Sue Music (2):

And I completely agree with that and him and I, to be honest, yeah, we would have these conversations and he,'cause he goes to his job all day and he works really hard and my husband has done a lot to grow himself and develop himself to get to where he is and to even be open to the idea, to homeschooling.'cause it was so outside of his comfort zone and yeah. Especially when you don't get the support from like your family, right? So I think to be honest, it really boiled down at one point in time where I'm like, look, like I am still figuring this out. I cannot tell you with certainty that I like, I don't know a hundred percent of what I'm doing. I know I have the best of intentions and we have a faith, thankfully, that continues to build confidence and be like, if I think that we're gonna be so off track, I believe that, God will reveal that to us. But I, at this point in time, all I need is you to just give me a year. Let me,

Sue Music (3):

yeah.

Sue Music (2):

Like quiet for a year. Let me figure this out. Let me. Ask the people I need to ask. I am not afraid of hard work. And again, I have the best of intentions. I'm not doing this for me.

Timmy Eaton:

No, I would

Sue Music (2):

so easily send him to school. No,

Timmy Eaton:

You were enjoying those six hours. Yeah,

Sue Music (2):

it's so true. I'm like, this is a a very steep learning curve.

Timmy Eaton:

And a huge sacrifice. Even though it is so rewarding and enjoyable, even though they're definitely at the beginning it's unfortunately it'd be, it can be so overwhelming, but it need not be, and I know that's easier said than done if you're just starting, but it really doesn't, if people just knew they could chill and just enjoy their kids, read to them like you said, you who has your sons and your children's interests? Who cares about'em the most? Who loves'em and who actually cares about their future the most? And I know a lot of teachers care, but they're never going to care like a parent does.

Sue Music (2):

A hundred percent and every year it felt like, okay, we could change schools again. But again, you're like, who knows what kind of teacher you're gonna have every single year. It's okay, are we gonna have a teacher that's understanding of this or not? Yeah. And I felt like, we'd be doing so much damage control at the end of the day, which is like where I have the least amount of energy versus at the beginning of the day. And I do feel like I hear what you're saying, where I wish people would just relax and I think that still of myself now. I wish I could, but you

Timmy Eaton:

gotta go through it.

Sue Music (2):

Relax. But I think the part that makes it overwhelming and challenging, which is a kind of a blessing and a curse at the same time, is, especially in Alberta, you have so much freedom and options available to you that when you could go any direction, and again, you're talking to lots of other people, you're reading. Different perspectives on Facebook. It's, there's so many options. Which one do I choose? Do I go the eclectic or the classical education route, or do I go the, online or traditional, or do I do the unschooling? Or what if I wanna do a little bit of everything or how do I do that? Or I wanna travel at the same time and do you know what I mean? Yeah. You can do anything.

Timmy Eaton:

It's literally, like when you take that down to the very smallest, it's what book do I check out? Or what math curriculum do they do and do they do math? And, it's, yeah. So I, I see what you're saying for sure.

Sue Music (2):

And I think that one of the wisest things that I was. I taught early on was like, have a homeschooling philosophy or a vision for why you're doing it. And that really resonated with me because if I have an end in mind and like just a few things that, I want my kids to have confidence and I want them to have character. And if I vet everything through that lens, then it really helps with decision making and not feeling so overwhelming. Otherwise, I feel like it could go in every direction and, just

Timmy Eaton:

feel

Sue Music (2):

overwhelmed all the time.

Timmy Eaton:

That's one thing that I don't know what session you were at a here with me, but the that's one thing I teach about is like just having a very clear purpose statement, purpose document. What's interesting to me is I cannot recall one example of somebody who's, whose like mission for their family, for learning and living was something even that closely tied to academics.

Sue Music (3):

Isn't

Timmy Eaton:

that interesting? And yet that's what most of the anxiety is over, is like test taking and will they get into university and what about this or that? And it's like a, it's academically tied, but then when you ask'em what they actually are focused on, it's not typically academics. So tell us how it's going. Like how has it been, how has it been with, because you, like you said, it's not it's like roses and butterflies constantly with homeschooling. So how has it been for your son and for you, and maybe describe a typical day how things go down. Maybe even compare, like what did you do early on and what do you do now?

Sue Music (2):

I would say that we've we've tried a lot of different things. So we first started off with deschooling. I definitely felt like just because I was learning so much and trying to figure it out let's deschool and at first I really like the unschooling philosophy. We're in Calgary we're really fortunate where there's a lot of programs, and this was pre COVID, so there wasn't. Nearly as many as there is now. True. But there was like a kind of an unschooling type co-op where I loved the philosophy of it and I signed our eldest up for that. And that one I likened to like Lord of the Flies because I was like, this is not playing out the way that I want it to play out. This is just wild. So it wasn't the right fit. But there were some great lessons learned. Like I'm definitely of the mindset of nothing ventured, nothing gained. Totally.

Timmy Eaton:

And it shapes. Like without that experience, you wouldn't be so clear about the direction you do want to go.

Sue Music (2):

Oh, a hundred percent. Exactly right. Like this. I think if you have a mindset of let's just give it a try and then, adjust and tweak as we need to based on the fit and as we're figuring out. And realize that wasn't the right fit and. Around that time too, our middle guy was going into kindergarten, so the plan was just to homeschool our eldest and then to see how the others did in the school system. I liked the idea, at the very least for them to do a couple of years and to learn to read and write, with someone else. Yeah. And then I could focus on the eldest one and kind of his interest and strengths.'cause I've always resonated with that. I really do believe in the play to your strengths, manage your weaknesses, like know what you're good at. And again, if you wanna do something that's an area of weakness, it's fine. You just have to work that much harder for it. But let's know what you're good at. So you're confident in those areas.'cause I think with confidence, you can do anything. We could miss so many marks academically, but if you're confident by the time you're finished, you're in your adulthood. You can learn anything at that point in time.'cause you believe you can.

Timmy Eaton:

I've heard it said like confidence fills the gaps.

Sue Music (2):

'Cause again, you can just, you can learn all the math you need to learn in less than a year to get into university if you wanna go into an engineering program for example. We tried that. The middle one was in kindergarten, then COVID came and then just like everybody else through everything upside down on its head. But thankfully I was already homeschooling one of them. So when they were like, here, we're gonna meet on these Zoom calls and do all of this stuff. Yeah. You

Timmy Eaton:

knew what to do.

Sue Music (2):

We are good. We're not gonna be there. If my son wants to come and say hi to his buddies for five minutes, fine. But yeah,

Timmy Eaton:

that's it. We have

Sue Music (2):

lots of stuff at home. I had Deschooled already and, this is like a side comment, but I do wish that in the education system that they just let kids learn things that they were interested in that dime and took the opportunity to just read and do those types of play. Lego Totally do those things. Yes.'Cause I think it would have enhanced their experience. But anyways, that's a side comment. So we had transitioned to that and by the time school was coming along again to Reregister, we had decided it just seemed like such an unhealthy place as far as just mindset wise from everyone was so divided still on what was happening and whether kids should go back to school or not go back to school. So we're like, let's just keep you out of that, out of the drama really. And then we kept the middle guy. And then I learned about a classical education program and I was like, you know what? I loved the idea of it. And conceptually I was like, oh, this sounds. So interesting. I love that it was teacher directed, so I didn't have to go find the curriculum. I was following someone else's plan, but we could do it on our own time. We did that and we did that for two years for the younger two. And then the oldest never did that program'cause I knew it wouldn't be a fit for him. So we were doing at one point, unschooling for him, classical education for the middle, and I had my youngest in a preschool. So three different directions. Wow. And we were so busy.

Timmy Eaton:

Yes. But it's cool that you could customize it in that way too.

Sue Music (2):

Yeah I like felt that was the right thing at the time. And then as we transitioned into the two youngest were in classical education and the eldest was still homeschooling and learned of a hybrid program that had just started up. So he was going there. So it was have, three kids in two different programs. And then eventually we just realized, or myself, especially that classical education was not the right fit for us. And that. I do really love the interest-based, strength-based unschooling philosophy. And so we just leaned into that, did the hybrid program one day a week. And I say that, but I would say we're probably closer to eclectic'cause we do a little bit of math curriculum with the middle guy. Yeah.

Sue Music (3):

Yeah.

Sue Music (2):

'Cause he's since, very early on he is I'm gonna be an engineer. I'm gonna be an engineer. So we're like, okay. I do know that you need math for that. And so as much as you could do this later on in life and catch up, let's just have this part of your day to day. So as far as our days and what it looks like, it, it changes every day. But we have a schedule and a calendar that, has our activities. One of the things that you had mentioned as far as just socialization at the beginning, and that's such a big concern. And oftentimes when I meet new homeschoolers or they want to homeschool, it is one of their biggest concern, and this is my opinion, but I think a lot of it also has to do with the parent, that if you want your kids to develop other relationships outside of their siblings in the homeschooling community, a lot will boil it down to you and your effort in driving them.'cause one of the things that happens a lot with homeschoolers is you're like, I don't feel like it today, or we're just gonna have an easy day, which is fine. If you're not gonna show up consistently to certain things, then it'll be really challenging for your kids to. Find those friendships. That's

Timmy Eaton:

a good point. It is.

Sue Music (2):

And again, it depends'cause I know many families who like spend most of the time at home and their friendships are their siblings and that works for them and that's great. I have two very extroverted children. And they, and one's more introverted, but the two extroverted ones butt heads like crazy. And there's just often lots of fighting if we don't find ourselves moving outside doing other things. And it's way more fun to do something in a group of 10 than it is in a group of three. So we have found some awesome groups and we've over time, built a bit of a community and the kids have lots of different friends. And the one of the neatest observation that I have had in that kind of way that we've approached it is that they can go to a playground and make friends with everybody. And I've even had we've run into different old friends of ours whose kids are in school, or some of our friends have had kids later in life, so their children are a lot younger than ours. And they're like, wow, your kids are so good with three year olds or four year olds. And I was like they're around it all the time. This is not unusual for them to be at a co-op. And then, the oldest sibling is in charge of helping out with the youngest one. And so because you're with them, they're all helping out or it's such a normal thing for them to be around kids. And it doesn't matter what age you are, if you wanna play the game, we were just at a homeschooling baseball co-op like just a couple of hours ago and there's three different groups. There's a toddler group, there's like a middle range group, and there's an older group. And on the busy days there's like probably close to 60 kids that come out. All different ages though. All different skill levels. And sometimes you'll have nine and 10 year olds that are playing with the really older kids'cause they're comfortable playing at that level of baseball. And sometimes you'll have some of the really older kids come play with the middle group and it's just amazing to see how that works. And then again, the kids organically build the friendships that, that connect with them. And one of the things too that I've noticed or really love about homeschooling is they build their friendships based off of interest and values more than they do off of convenience. Or even

Timmy Eaton:

age.

Sue Music (2):

Or even age Exactly. We love that, that, you can make friends wherever you go and. How our days are organized is really based upon what activities and then we fill in from there. This year we had a Thursday hybrid day, so they were there all day. Friday is homeschool baseball when it's nice out outside of the wintertime. Monday, I know we once a month volunteer with a dementia center where our kids go and volunteer for a little bit once a month. And then Mondays is our day.

Timmy Eaton:

What do they do when they do that?

Sue Music (2):

It's organized by, I wanna say an occupational therapist, and she has different activities. So one day it was bingo, another times it was like a winter craft. And so the kids just come in and depending on their comfort level, like I would say my youngest daughter will just go up and help them or talk to them. Sometimes I think they just like to see younger kids around because they don't get a lot of visitors. They

Sue Music (3):

don't have to do anything.

Sue Music (2):

That's right. And my eldest one who's not as comfortable doing stuff with them will go and play the piano. There's a piano there and he'll just play the piano for them. So that's what Mondays looks like. And we found all of these opportunities through it's just moms starting up different.

Timmy Eaton:

Opportunity. My, my wife is a master at doing stuff like that, and I love it because it's stuff that I wouldn't do. I was like, oh, you can do that. And she's just pick up the phone and call people. It's just like universities turns out you can just call universities Yeah. And talk to programs and say, what do you need to do? And then you can figure it out on your own. We don't do it as much anymore, but we used to go to this hospital auxiliary and play music. All my kids play music and we would play and sing and do that kind of stuff for them. And so again, you don't know exactly what difference it's making, but it's making a difference on the kids at the very least and who knows the impact it's having.

Sue Music (2):

And then I think so yeah, the Wednesdays is that we have a really strong co-op here in Calgary that runs, and they do different activities on Wednesdays. So the most Wednesdays, that's what we do. And we fill in the stuff around the home and the things that have more flexibility around that. But because we do interest led I've got my oldest that has, he's very entrepreneurial, so he has a snow removal business, so that keeps us very busy in the wintertime.

Timmy Eaton:

How did that get started?

Sue Music (2):

It was COVID. My mother-in-law was struggling to find a someone who would remove snow and be consistent.'cause she said they would call the day of and be like, sorry I have no guys, or I can't come. And no, that's so

Sue Music (3):

annoying. She

Sue Music (2):

was just getting, she just having so many issues with that. And and so my husband was like, he was working from home because of COVID. He's why don't Corbin and I just come and take care of it? And she's sure. And then her brother, so my husband's uncle needed someone too. And then it just snowballed. So this would've been, oh gosh, it would've been like four years ago. I wanna say that started. And since then, yeah we'll take on like the odd extra client here and there.'cause it, it falls on mum to drive yes. Often now. And which is fine because it's like, again, a great reason to go outside to get your body moving.

Timmy Eaton:

And it's a great education. All that teaches a kid about work ethic and then figuring out, being on time and communicating and the money side of it.

Sue Music (2):

The older he's gotten, the more responsibility he has to take on. So now he's gotta do the invoices. Like dad's not gonna do it for him anymore. Dad sat down with him and showed him how to do it. So he's now doing the invoicing and he's so good taking the phone calls and none of our children are afraid to call and leave a voicemail. They all know how to do that. Even our youngest two,'cause they, they tired of like their oldest brother bossing him them around when be like, okay, I'll pay you this much if you do this. And then, so then they're like, we don't wanna work for him anymore, but we wanna go see in the neighborhood. So the two of them went and like door knocked just in our neighborhood. And they'd come back with 10,$15 into a 10 and 8-year-old, like they just cleaned up. That's so cool. And and again, just being able to manage money and to do that. So that's what he does in the. In the wintertime, in my middle guy, he is got a mind of an engineer. He builds things like crazy in these last couple months. He's every spare moment he has, he wants to be folding paper into like origami in some form. And he's self-taught. Like the other day it was pouring rain here and he's I'm gonna go float these boats down. We live on a hill. And so like down the kind of the gutter. And I was like, okay, sure. And so next thing I know, he's like pulling out a piece of paper and then he just like boom. And then now he's there you go. He's got this like paper boat. And he just does it from his mind because he's learned so much of it and he spent hours and hours on YouTube just figuring it out.

Sue Music (3):

Yes.

Sue Music (2):

And then the youngest one is still very much in like her play era. So love dolls.

Timmy Eaton:

So what time do you guys like end the day? What time do you start the day? Oh yeah, that's always a funny question for homeschool families. We're way late. And like right now in the summer. We stay up so late and so I'm off to work, but everybody else is just able to except my older kids have to work early and so anyway, yeah. It's all over the place right now.

Sue Music (2):

We fall within that category. I would say. I, it's so funny, I wrestle with this sometimes and I think my husband does too,'cause he is it's nine o'clock and they're still sleeping. I was like I'm like, they're not going to bed till they're not asleep till 10 30, 11. We're all going to bed at this stage of life at the same time. Everyone's gonna sleep lights out at the same time. Oh yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

And see, we're never in bed before midnight ever.

Sue Music (2):

And that's the tricky part. You're like, okay, where's the time? There's no, Chris and Sue time, like it was when they were little in, I know. Yeah. Know like someone is always awake. Other than first thing in the morning. But Chris obviously off to work first thing, but it gives me a couple of hours in the morning, which I enjoy and value and helps me set up for the day. And I just find one of the things about homeschooling is especially as teenagers are growing and kids are growing is that, they grow when they sleep and

Timmy Eaton:

if they

Sue Music (2):

had a hard time falling asleep, and they're still tired, like they're not sleeping in'cause they're lazy because if we need to be somewhere they're getting up. But if they can sleep, why wouldn't we let them?

Timmy Eaton:

And it's something that, is a problem in the schools is that kids are leaving. Home with not adequate sleep and without a healthy meal and all those things. Those things are small maybe, but they're huge in my mind, those are two things I totally value an un rushed morning. A good sleep and a healthy meal

Sue Music (2):

I couldn't agree more, right? And we've transitioned to them hopefully. They're not every day they asked me to make them breakfast this morning, but they can like feed themselves and make themselves breakfast and get started on their day. And unless we have to be somewhere we don't have a okay, we're starting at this time.'cause they often, I just let them do their own thing, like an un rushed morning if we're home. And as far as we end the day I, the way I look at it is the day ends when the light turns off. So we're learning all the time and sometimes, love it. It's just projects in the evening. We have really strict rules on screen time. And we have virtually none in the summer. It's not necessary unless we're watching a movie as a family. But if the sun is shining and it's nice outside, there's a lot of neighborhood kids that, there's some homeschoolers that we're really good friends with that are a couple blocks away and them and some neighbors, and they'll go to the park till nine o'clock at night in the summer. So

Timmy Eaton:

good.

Sue Music (2):

And they, it's like we, it's

Timmy Eaton:

Wow, you grew up, man. It's like how you just, yeah. Leave and then come back later and,

Sue Music (2):

yes. And it's the way I think it, it should be and can be and so yeah, the day doesn't end until the lights are out and we're learning. Sometimes we'll do some more formal stuff in the evening and I have a whiteboard of things that need to be, we have a skylight calendar that I got from Mother's Day,'cause I love organization. Who would've thought 20 years ago I would've been that way. But we have a skylight calendar so everyone knows what's going on as far as in the schedule. And then I have a whiteboard that it's written down, like what needs to be done today for certain kids, if there's a deadline or something that needs to be completed for whatever, or something that I'd like them to work on. So today is like chore day. There's lots of commissions work that they have to do for their commissions, and then each of them have to clean their rooms and things like that. But, so that's, and are you good at

Timmy Eaton:

following up? Whatever you put on the board, are you good at that follow up?

Sue Music (2):

Not always. I think my husband's great at coming in and being like, did any of this get done today? They're like, why is this on the board? And I think that's part of the reason that it is written on the whiteboard, is that it doesn't get erased. So it's a reminder for myself. Yeah. I'm not great at following up. Not'cause I don't want to just because I've moved on to the next

Timmy Eaton:

thing. No kidding. I know. That's definitely my wife too. Yeah. And a lot of times she assumes it got done.

Sue Music (2):

Yes. And

Timmy Eaton:

so the kids sometimes she'll be like, what? This was like, it erased in my mind, I could throw my note card away and now it's still rock. So

Sue Music (2):

Yes, exactly. I am a hundred percent the same way. It's it's, I've moved on. I've done my part, I've written it down. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

And that's learning, right? I don't know. We, in a day to day we'll get frustrated with that stuff. And I understand, but like really it's all good. It's all good. Totally.

Sue Music (3):

Yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

You mentioned before about like how you started in, you did an intentional deschooling. Do you remember what you did for that? I think a lot of the audience listening would be like, yeah what do you do for Deschooling? Do you remember?

Sue Music (2):

Yeah. What you guys did. Yeah, I think we just let, like we just didn't have a schedule. I just let him read if he wanted to read. I observed a lot. And I've always done this even before homeschooling, and it's one of the things that even myself is my own learning of my personal growth is like just being self-aware of the areas that I wanna grow in and having goals and what am I good at, what am I not as good at, and then I need to improve on. And just even in my own children is just watching them and presenting them. I think with Deschooling it's like lots of questions of presenting opportunities of okay. Options. Yeah. Options. Yeah. Is this something that we would be interested in trying a little bit? And do we wanna sign up for this program? And our rule in our house is look like we'll talk about it and you will sign up for it. But if we sign up for it, we're committed to it until the end. And then we evaluate it afterward. It's not you do it once, you're like, oh, I don't like it. It's too bad. We're gonna see this thing through And I really believe in the idea of you still have to do things when you don't feel like it.'cause sometimes, especially in the unschooling world, there's a slippery slope where it can fall down to

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. You don't wanna be like, unreliable or something.

Sue Music (2):

Yes.'cause that's not gonna help them later on in life. Like eventually, whether they work a job, they start a business, there's gonna be some aspect of something that they aren't gonna like to do. And they, there has to be this ability and this habit created of Ooh, I don't feel like doing it, but I am responsible to it and if I want the outcome, I have to do it.

Timmy Eaton:

I don't have many criticisms'cause I love what goes on with homeschool and families learning, but I have observed that. In some, I don't think it's that frequent, but sometimes there's this feeling that people owe you stuff because you started homeschooling. And we will use that how we will, and we won't show up for this and we won't show up for that. And I don't know, there's a line somewhere where it's like, it borders like dishonesty or unreliability or it's not high integrity. And it's like you can't, you don't abandon that. On the one hand, it's so good that people like the flexibility and the freedom, and I'm all for that. But if you sign up for something, they're not at your mercy. You've signed up for it, like and so come through. So I'm glad you're saying that.

Sue Music (2):

But as far as deschooling, it was just like allowing ourselves to intentionally not be super rigid about falling a schedule or trying to do, I think one of the disservices that COVID did with homeschooling'cause there's a lot of great opportunities, it grew so much After that. And many people were enlightened to a lot of different things that led them to homeschool. But one of the disservices I noticed is that there was some people that assumed that homeschooling was schooling at home. Where you're trying to, where you're trying to mimic school, but at home. And so these kids are miserable. Or even as parents, you'll be like, I don't know how to do this.

Timmy Eaton:

And then they like peg it to homeschooling and they're like, yeah, I told you homeschooling stinks. And you're like, yeah, it's not homeschooling man. Not

Sue Music (2):

at all. Not at all. And I think that's part of Deschooling is just, in my opinion and in my experience and what we've done, is that it's like we're not trying to mimic school. You're really trying to push the boundaries of to get out of that routine of showing up and doing all of the things on the list and having your math and your science and your, all of your curriculum. Totally. And you're up at eight and you're done at five. But, some homeschoolers that's how they organize their calendar too, and it works amazing for them.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. And that's how they do it. But that's cool too because they chose that it wasn't Yeah. Compelled it wasn't, put upon them. And so that is deschooling really is at the core, a transition from the conventional, traditional institutional way of thinking to thinking for yourself. And it doesn't mean, yeah. It's not like you're trying to be different for different sake. You're not like, oh, let's do crazy things unless that's what fits like you said, your mission statement as a family. Yeah. But but the idea is think through it. Think through it for real, and what do you want to do as a family? You only get this life once. That's why this podcast is called this Golden Hour. It's fleeting, man. Your kids are gone. Like all of a sudden I've got three kids graduated and and none of them with a diploma. So it's just cool that you can do it your own way.

Sue Music (2):

And I think like a big part of Deschooling is you can go and you like, why not check out the different programs and just observe and go and look at all the different things and learn and build some new friendships. And that's the way I think that we approached it early on, but I wouldn't say it was very difficult for us.'cause again, my son wanted to homeschool, so for him he is we would go to the playground and see some of his old peers after school or, because again, my middle guy went to kindergarten, so he would see his peers.

Sue Music:

Yeah. And

Sue Music (2):

they would come up to me and be like, oh man, Corbin, like we missed you. Like, how's homeschooling? He's it's amazing. He's and they would be like, really? He's yeah. He's Hey, imagine this. You sit down, what if you could do all of your work in one day, in one hour and have the rest of the day to do whatever you want? And that's how he, it's like a natural

Sue Music (3):

salesperson.

Sue Music (2):

That's what he's gonna do. He's just I don't know what you guys are doing, but I am living my best life.

Timmy Eaton:

Let me ask you, this has been such a fun conversation. Let me ask you just two questions in closing if I could. The first one is what so specific to your son, like what difference has homeschooling made for him? And I know we've talked around that, but directly what difference has this decision, this lifestyle decision that your family has made for him personally? And and then secondly, what would you counsel new homeschool families that are overwhelmed and oh dude, how do we do this? We know we want to, that was you but what do we do? There's so much stuff out there. How do we start this?

Sue Music (2):

What we notice with him. He used to like, get a lot of headaches and especially when he was going to regular school, and, those headaches were non-existent. We, we had a lot of things like just physiological things that were going on with him when he was in school where he'd be like tummy aches or this type of stuff. And they just, they're not there anymore. They were not present anymore. He has for sure his level of confidence it's been amazing to watch the fruit of his own confidence. And I would say sometimes it's it needs to be humbled.'cause I often say he's still getting in trouble and doing certain things that you're like, I wish you wouldn't do that. And I wish that was not it, because now I'm the one that is Yeah. Setting the boundaries and you're still like breaking the rules, man. I don't know why I thought if it was gonna be at home, it would work out better. But, he's he's still finding himself in those situations. But no one has a better interest in him than myself and Chris. And so I am the one having conversations with him when he makes certain decisions that you're like, okay, why did we do this? And we can have this conversation around, what other options is versus somebody else and again, I'm not perfect, like I have to apologize to him all the time'cause I'm human too, so I can say things just like a teacher would. But at the end of the day, I have him year after year, day after day. And so I have this kind of belief that it will all work itself out for him. And that for him, I just think that we are maximizing his potential, especially in the areas like we did a personality test. Like I attended that session that you did around recommending to do personality tests. And I was not surprised by the outcome of it.'cause it essentially boiled down to like salesperson is what? I think it was like Debater is the name of it, the one that we did. But it was true to him. But there were just aspects to it when he was answering the questions that I was like, Ooh. I didn't know you thought that way about yourself. So then, by observing that, then I'm like, okay, it's in the back of my mind that we can have conversations about it or work on it. For him to build in the areas of confidence. And because again, he has the ability to. Do these entrepreneurial like endeavors. Yeah. And grow in something that he just would not be able to do, if he was in school all day long, because he just has the time to do it and has the interest to do it. And so I would say for him, like I just think it's setting himself up and I honestly don't think we'll see the true fruit of it till he is an adult. I often give my advice to anybody with a grain of salt because you're like, I'm still in the thick of it. You know yourself, you have three kids without diplomas and you've got some fruit on your tree to be like, look what it's produced. And

Timmy Eaton:

Honestly though, you just listed off a ton of stuff that like, had he been, and it's not demonizing schools, it's just like they're not set up for it. And if it does that for somebody who struggles with like a. A DHD or A-D-A-D-H-D or what, whatever, and any other kind of challenge, so, if a kid can thrive in school, they can certainly thrive in home education. So I just feel like you have seen the fruit it depends on how people are measuring things. What are they measuring as success, and then how much of that can you attribute to the homeschool environment? All I know is that when you have a loving parent providing this freedom and flexibility, I don't know how you could go wrong.

Sue Music (2):

This past year I'd really noticed so we've known that he's entrepreneurial. Even when he was in school, he was doing things that you're like, okay, you are a businessman.

Sue Music (3):

Yeah.

Sue Music (2):

And but as time has gone on, he's I want a job. But one of the things we've realized, and I've heard that it's really challenging to find jobs now, but then we actually saw him, he went to McDonald's, he went to a couple places where at one time when you were 14, 15, you could get these jobs. Whereas now they're not hiring till you're 16. At least they won't even look at you till you're 16. And we went to a hiring fair in Calgary just to check it out. And the wait was two hours and a half to get in, and the lineup was like hundreds and hundreds of people. Whereas when I was that age, wow. You walked in and there was no line. And so we've had these conversations around, okay, maybe things are a little bit different. And I don't like the mindset of you're never gonna buy a house and you're never gonna be able to do this because of everything happening. You're like, okay, what do we need to do to set you, that's to set you up for future success. And so one of the things we've observed is that there's a lot of people that when they're getting jobs or opportunities, it's through people they know or through people they've built a connection with or built a reputation by. So he is got for sure his snow removal business and then growing in that. But one of the things, he's got this body that needs to constantly move. So he, I go to the gym regularly. My husband goes to the gym and. We got him a gym membership. And so he comes with me, he's come with me he's taking a break now for, but over the winter time, he'll come to workouts and we've said to him we go to a gym where there's a lot of more nine to five business people also entrepreneurs. Like it's more of a boutique type gym. Yeah. And we're like, Hey, Corman, how you shake a hand eye contact that you make, make an impression because you don't, these are how you're gonna set yourself apart. That's how you network.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah.

Sue Music (2):

That's how you network. And knowing that, eventually where you wanna end up, like the more people you know, and the more people that you be authentic, but also make an impression. And so he's been in the sauna with me where there's like people in their fifties and sixties and they're like, why aren't you in school? And he is communicating to that.

Timmy Eaton:

He fields the question. Yeah.

Sue Music (2):

Yes, exactly. And things like that too. I just think again, you have the opportunity to do that because. He's with us in the daytime and totally we can organize it into our day. And we just notice okay, this we believe is gonna help you long term. There's no reason we can't develop this skill now. Yeah, you have the

Timmy Eaton:

time. Yeah,

Sue Music (2):

exactly. One,

Timmy Eaton:

one thing I would throw in there too with that is just like the idea of apprenticeship is I feel like it's totally come back to so many people and like e even if you're not paid. And a lot of times people just pay you'cause they're kind. But like for example our couple of our boys have done a bike mechanics apprenticeship with this guy and he just pays him cash here and there. And they learn a good skill and it's work ethic and it's volunteer and a lot of times volunteer stuff on a resume. I'm saying going into universities or to future jobs has as much if not more impact as far as hiring and getting into stuff. And so anyway, I, that's we're rehr apprenticeship in our, in this generation. And so it's good.

Sue Music (2):

And we have experienced that as well with a rancher where we buy our cow from, and this year we had to go pick up our meat and so we drove down and it's a family friend, so you know, I said, would you be willing to like, show us around? I'd love for the kids to learn a little bit about, I love it where it's coming. He was so happy to do it and our eldest asked him out of the blue, he's like, do you think you ever have an opportunity for me to work here with you at some point in time? And I was like, he caught me off guard. I did not expect him to ask that. And I was like, Hey, man I'm the one that's gonna have to drive you. This is pretty far for me. And the guy was so kind and gracious, and again, Corbin's not expecting to get a ton of money out of this. He was just like, can I'm intrigued by this. Yeah. I love this. I see this, it seems really intriguing. I'm curious. And he let him, he's come out not as much as he, like our son would've liked, mainly because of logistically. But it's not something I ever would've thought he would've loved. No Corbin's

Timmy Eaton:

doing that at this age. Yeah, like you said, you. You're not worried about the the ability to be successful financially, but you just gotta make sure you stay on the path you want to go.

Sue Music (2):

It's like trying these things out. Like I think they kids build confidence and this apprenticeship is coming back. We're like, try it out and ask yourself like, what did you like about it? What didn't you, what could you learn from it? And where, what's next?

Timmy Eaton:

So the last one I was gonna ask you is and I'm sure this has happened to you, like good friends or somebody that say, Hey, I think I'm gonna do this. I'm so overwhelmed. What's your counsel? What's your advice to somebody in that situation?

Sue Music (2):

I would, I say it boils down to like with the end in mind, like start with why Simon Sinek has that great video, which people often use for their career, which I think can lend itself to ev many things. Is start with why, like why are you considering it, why are you doing it? And I think once you establish why you're doing it, it can still be very overwhelming. I think people need to figure out how to develop the skills they need in anything when they're overwhelmed, is how to manage that part is, I think a personal journey for every person. But I think it allows you to be resilient and continue to forge ahead despite those feelings is the why and reminding yourself constantly of it and that, you know, it is a long game. It's really hard to measure. And I think as a society we're conditioned to think okay, I wanna be able to after even like when I said to my husband like, gimme a year, I was praying like, oh my gosh, hopefully I'll have some fruit that after a year I should have something to show for this because it's not gonna be an academics. I'm not gonna be like, look at our sun can do like this long division. All of a sudden it's yeah. It's very difficult to measure, especially over the course of a year. And and I find that

Timmy Eaton:

most families are measuring, not necessarily those, sometimes it is academic, sometimes it is their reading improved like exponentially. But a lot of times it's like they're happier, they're more confident, like you said, it's like the things you actually care about as parents is what you're seeing the difference. And I'm not saying it's everybody, but the majority, like the majority are saying no, they're happier, they're less anxious, they're less depressed. They're they're wanting to learn the things that they're learning. And again, it's not everybody. Yeah. But it is pretty common.

Sue Music (2):

And I think the other piece, and I mean I even find myself getting caught up in it too at times is the comparison is just like being cautious. Like not to compare yourself and your family

Sue Music (3):

With

Sue Music (2):

everything else around you. Because even in asking advice to other people, like it always is coming back to ourselves and our own family and the conversation. And again, one of the wisest pieces of advice I got very early on was like, it's a year to year decision. I'm not gonna say, never say never in anything.'cause I'm always humbled when I say I'm never gonna do something. Yeah. I did say at one time I would never homeschool. So here I am. I never have a minivan. I drive a minivan. So I've removed never from my vocabulary and I'm just like I, again, it was the piece of advice. You're like, you can do anything for a year. We evaluate a lot and I do find around like that March April time, there's a lot of moms and homeschooling dads too. They're like, they're done over it. They're ready to send their kids back to public school. We can't do this any longer. So that's not a good time to evaluate whether you should continue on. I do really believe in like the take things a year at a time and evaluate things, not when it's at a low, but when you're feeling like at peace with a lot of things and with the end in mind around why we're doing it and is it still relevant now and. It's a matter of making it work within your family. And so it's so specific to, I think the family and why you are doing it and why you're doing it for your kids. But if the why is really because this is the best thing to set our kids up for long-term success, then just surround yourself with anything that you need to, anybody that you need to be able to continue to support that because it's the right thing, right? I think so oftentimes. I can only speak as a woman, but like we have this strong sense of intuition and we allow the world and other opinions to question us or misguide us, but gosh, that intuition as a mom has served me so well. And at times it has been really difficult and challenged to follow through with, you come out of a difficult season and you're so grateful that I'm like so glad that despite all the noise I followed through with that and it's just not something to be ignored. Yes. In my opinion.

Timmy Eaton:

That's well said. Thank you so much. That was an amazing conversation. So grateful to have been with Stu Music today, everybody. And hope you have a great rest of your day.

Sue Music (2):

Thank you. You as well. And have a great weekend. That wraps up another edition of this Golden Hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it if you would take a minute and give us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. It helps out a lot, and if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.