This Golden Hour

119. Christine Devane and "Elephant Beach"

• Timothy Eaton

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In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Christine Devane from Massachusetts. Christine is a mother of three young children, experienced classroom teacher, and author of the children’s book "Elephant Beach." Her book reflects upon her own experiences as a shy youngster, and it emphasizes the importance of knowing that people are different, and that we can choose to be kind and accepting of everyone. Christine shares practical advice for parents and educators on fostering a love of reading, utilizing local libraries, and encouraging children to follow their interests. We discuss turning everyday moments and outings into learning opportunities, emphasizing that education happens everywhere, not just in the classroom. 

Connect with Christine

christine-devane.com

Christine’s Book

“Elephant Beach”

Resources

“Grumpy Monkey” Books


This Golden Hour

Christine Devane:

I think that story time's really important. Even if you are having a busy day, I think it's really important just to take 10 minutes to just stick with the routine of, okay, even if we had a busy day, let's still read our books. And it gets kids to enjoy reading and to really connect with the stories.

Timmy Eaton:

Hi. I am Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six and Doctor of Education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years, and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out, but people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue. New homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling and homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today and enjoy this episode of This Golden Hour podcast. As you exercise, drive clean or just chill. You're listening to this Golden Hour podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Christine Dein from Massachusetts. Christine is a mother of three young children, experienced classroom teacher and author of the Children's Book, elephant Beach. Her book reflects upon her own experiences as a shy youngster, and it emphasizes the importance of knowing that people are different and that we can choose to be kind and accepting of everyone. Christine shares practical advice for parents and educators on fostering a love of reading, utilizing local libraries. And encouraging children to follow their interests. We discussed turning everyday moments and outings into learning opportunities, emphasizing that education happens everywhere, not just in the classroom. Welcome back to this Golden Hour podcast today. We are excited to have with us Christine Deva from Massachusetts. Thanks for being with us, Christine.

Christine Devane:

Thank you for having me on the show today.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah, you bet. Christine is a mother of three kids. She's spent 13 years in the classroom teaching. We're definitely gonna ask you about what Beach Days are, and so we want you to talk about that and definitely wanna talk about her debut book, which is called Elephant Beach. And what my audience should know she Christine isn't a homeschool mom, but she really focuses on children and on books and writing and stories, laughter and playful activities for kids. And so we're gonna see how that kind of connects with us as homeschool families. And so thank you again for being with us.

Christine Devane:

Thank you so much for having me on again.

Timmy Eaton:

Anything you wanna add to the bio?

Christine Devane:

So the whole reason I got into writing books was because when I was. Younger. I loved reading and I was very shy. I also really enjoyed animals. I wanted to be a vet, but I cannot take the sight of blood. So that dream went out the window. And then when I was older, I started working with kids in afterschool programs and babysitting, and I just really enjoyed it because I was able to be creative and it was just nice to work with the children. So then I became a teacher, and when I was teaching, I realized the importance of story time and we had a lot of good conversations about books. And it was at that point that I realized there are books about shy kids, and that's why I wrote the book. So hopefully shy kids out there can relate to it and it can help parents and kids who are not shy understand how it can be tough to be shy.

Timmy Eaton:

And what grade did you teach?

Christine Devane:

So I was in second for a few years and I also, also third.

Timmy Eaton:

And tell us something about beach days. What is that? So we get some kind of background and understanding and we'll get into more detail about Elephant Beach.

Christine Devane:

The book came out in April, which was the perfect time because leading into summer vacation. So I did a lot of classroom visits and I wanted to make them fun and memorable for the kids. So I would bring towels, a beach ball. I brought sunglasses. And we would read the book, have discussions, play games, and then I brought some activities for the kids to do after they finished reading the book because I wanted to make it something that they would remember. And they all seemed to really enjoy it. And I've done some beach days at bookstores. I did one on a farm last week, which was pretty interesting. So I've just been going different places, making reading fun for kids and hoping that they get the message from the book.

Timmy Eaton:

So you'll go to like schools and do this?

Christine Devane:

Yeah, so I've been to schools, bookstores, libraries different places that have children. So there's a place near me called the STEM Spot and they have a lot of hands-on activities, but I've done two read alouds there. It's just an open place for kids to come and play. And like I said, I've gone to a farm, so all different places that host story times.

Timmy Eaton:

And how do you like hook that up? Like how do you set it up for schools, for example?

Christine Devane:

So a lot of'em are from people I know. So I've reached out to a lot of people through email, through Facebook, a lot of teachers that I used to work with. And then a lot of the places I've been to, I asked when I'm there. So the farm, I just happened to be there and my mom said, why don't you ask them if they do a story time? And it ended up being really cute, but a lot of people I've been asking. And then I also have a link on my website if people want to reach out to me that way, and I can come. Um, To different schools that way.

Timmy Eaton:

Why don't you tell us that website right now, just so I can put it in the show notes too.

Christine Devane:

My website is Christine, and then it's a hyphen diva. And on the website you can find all of my upcoming activities, pictures, and then there's a couple of worksheets people can download and there's a contact me page, and if you write a message in there, it goes to my email.

Timmy Eaton:

Oh, okay. Tell us more about Elephant Beach and have you done anything with homeschool families at all with promoting your book and just the idea of, laughter and stories with playful activities with kids?

Christine Devane:

So I've actually done a few homeschool podcasts. I've done about three homeschool podcasts because the message is still the same whether kids are in public school or if they're homeschool. It's just a message about kindness, understanding how different personalities are for children. So basically the book is about a girl that goes to the beach. She's quiet, she wants to be by herself, she wants to read her book, and there's a bunch of elephants there. And the elephants. Annoy her. They don't mean to annoy her, but they block the sun because they're so big. They get sand on her towel and they invite her to play, and originally she says no. And then after a little while she joins them and she has fun. So she has a different type of Bday than she had planned. And it shows kids that sometimes it's okay to just take a little while to warm up to a group. Because not every kid wants to jump right in and join a group. And also shows kids sometimes to not judge people before you know them because you have the elephants were annoying. Yeah. And then once she got to know them, she realized they were nice and then. There's also a message for the extroverts that sometimes it's nice to reach out to children that are alone and by themselves.

Timmy Eaton:

And when did you start writing it? When did you get the idea and when did that all go down?

Christine Devane:

So it's funny, I started coming up with the idea over 10 years ago when I was teaching and I joined a lot of author groups. There's a group, the S-C-B-W-I that I joined. I went to a few conferences. I would go to critique groups, and then I really didn't hear anything from anybody. And since then I've had. Three children and then somebody reached out to me last year about publishing the book. But it's worked out because now my kids are a little bit older, so I have more time to dedicate to the book.

Timmy Eaton:

And now actually

Christine Devane:

My children are like characters in the book because my older son is very outgoing. He's like the elephants and then my middle one and my younger one are extremely shy. So it's funny how it's worked out that now I have my own sort of elephant beach with my own children at my house because they are extremely different. Yeah, because I'm much more introverted. My husband is much more extroverted. So you could see with our children, my oldest son is exactly like him, and then my husband sometimes has a hard time understanding why the other two are so quiet and reserved. And I say well, that's how I was when I was little. And not every kid wants to join a group and it's okay if they wanna be by themselves and they're just much. More quieter. So it, it is funny how genetics and all of that comes into play.

Timmy Eaton:

Yes, indeed. Can you just delve a little bit deeper into the idea of using stories and laughter and playful activities for kids and what effect that has,'cause that could be something that homeschool moms obviously are interested in and, wanna provide this good learning environment. That's why they chose to homeschool. So what would you say about that? Stories, laughter, playful activities.

Christine Devane:

So stories are extremely important to children, and one thing that I've been emphasizing a lot on the podcast to moms is to utilize the local library because the library is a wonderful place for kids to go and pick up their own books, and there's a lot of activities there, and it really gets them engaged in reading. It gets them to enjoy reading. So I take my kids all the time. We went yesterday, actually, they had a Halloween party there, and it just. Allows for my kids to be able to pick all sorts of books out, and I know they pick books at school and for the homeschool because this is something that will give them an opportunity to pick books. But my son picks, I think one book at the school library, so it's nice to be able to take him to the library in our town where he can get. A bunch of books.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. And

Christine Devane:

for homeschooling parents, I think that's really important because it lets kids pick out all different topics that you might not pick for them. Because if not, you're buying the books and you're just going off of what you think they like. So my kids love cars, trucks, all that stuff. So I buy books around that for them. But then my son, when he went to the library, found a book on the Titanic, which I would've never really. Thought to buy for him and he got really into it. Now when we go to the library, he picks out different books on the Titanic. So I think that's a good way to get homeschooling kids and public school kids into reading. Just bring them to the library, get them the bag. Let them put books in it, let them fill it up and then also see if they have activities. Our library does a great job. They have a lot of enrichment programs and it's nice to get kids into the library and reading and doing different activities. We went to one this summer. My middle son loves. Bugs and they had one on worms and they read a book about worms, but then they actually brought out worms and my son thought it was the best thing. Yeah, around. And where he's quiet sometimes it's hard to get him to open up. But since he really enjoyed it and he was interested in it, he wanted to share it with everyone. So he was really excited to talk about it. I think starting with the library is really great, and then also at home, having a routine where you're reading to them every day. So my kids read books every day before they go to bed, so I have three. So they each pick a book and we read a book every night, and sometimes it's the same book. My daughter's very stuck on this Halloween book. My other two say, no, we don't wanna read that again. And I say that's not your choice. That's her choice. So if she wants to. To read it again, we're gonna read it again. Yeah, so I think that story time's really important. Even if you are having a busy day, I think it's really important just to take 10 minutes to just stick with the routine of, okay, even if we had a busy day, let's still read our books. And it gets kids to enjoy reading and to really connect with the stories.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. I love that comment because very relevant to homeschool families is one U using the library. So I don't know, a group of like people that utilize the library like homeschool families and they love what you just described and there's. Such good activities that are at libraries. And the second thing you talked about was just reading aloud to your kids and that's another philosophy that's just huge amongst a lot of homeschool families is the importance of reading each day to your children and how that not only helps them increase the love of learning, but helps them in their own reading and in their own education as they're read to every day, especially by loving parents. What would you tell us about fostering kindness and acceptance at home?

Christine Devane:

I would say first off, for parents just to be kind and patient with your children and their different personalities. Like I said, I have very different personalities at my house, so my son that's shy, I try to be patient with him because sometimes he doesn't want to always join groups and be in social situations. For example, he played soccer last year. I brought him every week. Did he wanna play? No, he's out on the side and eventually he wanted to play. I didn't push him and force him to do anything. So I think with parents, just sometimes being patient with our kids and just feeling like. We need to do the best for them and not what we're expected to do. Because I think sometimes parents think, oh there's something wrong with my kid if they don't wanna join the group, and there's not. I think that we just have to take every child for their individual personalities. And in the car too, my oldest son, he will tell you every single thing that happened in the day and then if you just let him talk, my middle son is not going to talk. So as a parent, sometimes I have to try to guide them with their conversations and make sure everyone is heard, and I'm sure most parents are already doing that, but just honing in on, okay, this child could talk all day. This child is not going to talk. How can we let them be their own person, but let each other. Be their own personality. So I do a lot of that in the car and I have to ask my middle son questions. So he will tell me about the day. And then my older son, I say, okay, I know you wanna share all of these things, but let's take a break. Yeah. And let's let him share. So as parents, just being kind and understanding and patient with our kids and just letting them be themselves, but also trying to make sure that everyone's voice is heard.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. And I like the word that you used guide, guide them along and with our questions and make sure that we fill that role as parents to make sure that everybody is heard and'cause it's true, like some personalities can be dominant and others might not have a chance to to share what they're thinking. So what about how stories specifically help kids understand their feelings and reactions? What have you learned about that?

Christine Devane:

So I've learned that stories are probably the best way to teach kids about social situations because they get engaged in the book, they learn through the characters, and indirectly they're learning without learning and without you telling them. And I feel especially with the smaller kids, if you keep telling them over and over again, the same lesson. They're not gonna really listen as much as if they learn it through a story or if they see it play out through the characters. So a lot of times when we read a book, we talk about the characters and what happened in the story. There's one book that they really like called grumpy Monkey. And it's about this monkey, and sometimes he gets a little frazzled and he sometimes needs to go take a break. But we read the book and we talk about why is the monkey acting so crazy and why does he need to take a break? But I feel like my kids understand more seeing. Play out. Okay he got upset, he need to take a break. And then he realized he could have fun with his friends. So they understand the message through the character rather than if I'm telling them, oh, if you get upset, just take a break and then we will go back and play. Because I think to them it's just more words. Whereas if they see it play out, they can connect with the character and say, oh, I'm upset. Like the monkey got upset and then he took a break and then he went back and had. Fun with his friends. They absolutely love those books. There's a whole series of them. Yeah. And it's great because it teaches them lessons about what happens if we get upset. And sometimes the monkey's having a bad day and it shows kids that, you know what, sometimes you're just gonna have a bad day, and that's okay. And I feel like for my kids, especially, they understand it more. Than if I'm telling them because they're listening to their parents all day long. So it's nice to see the characters.

Timmy Eaton:

One thing I was thinking about because I've done a lot of these interviews and talked with tons of homeschool families specifically, but lots of families in general. And I don't hear many people argue the idea that reading books to your kids is a good idea. But I have heard people say stuff to the effect of it doesn't really matter what you're reading, just get them reading and you hear people say something like that. Then you'll hear others say, no it does matter what they read because you want it to have. Nutrients for them, if you wanna say it that way. And so where are you with that? Like as far as if you had the metaphor might be like a Twine, a certain kind of book that it's writing on a page, but it doesn't necessarily teach morals, it doesn't teach like you were just explaining like how to respond to things, how to react, how to understand your feelings, or just it doesn't teach any morals and it's just reading or it's, not really edifying to the child, what's your philosophy as far as is it good just to read anything and just get reading? Or is it better to have books that that are edifying and leading kids to, to think and do good and that kind of thing?

Christine Devane:

So I think reading anything is helpful, but I obviously think if they're reading something that has a good message that is better for them. But with my kids, sometimes they pick out books and and they've gotten like a lot of ones on planes and trucks and all that stuff, and they might not have a deep, meaningful message in it, but they're learning about different parts of a car and different parts of a truck, and it's engaging them. So to me that's important. So if it doesn't have a storyline, but it's teaching them different things, then I still think it's important for them to read it and they like reading it. So I'm okay with that.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. And I like what you're saying about just following their interests. What's most important is for them to learn how to go deep on their interest and then as a mom or dad, facilitating that through what they're consuming in the way of books or other media. And I like that's a good principle of just like putting it in front of them. There's this term that we use often in, in home education circles, which is lay out the feast and so lay out the feast and then let them partake of it. And as long as they'll go with it, if your son's into trucks and planes or whatever, take that to the nth degree and as far as they want to, because that's good education. There was something else that talked about like just turning everyday moments into learning adventures. What does that look like in practice?

Christine Devane:

So just if you are outside or going for a walk or something like that, and say for example, today we're outside and there's a bunch of leaves, so all of a sudden my kids were playing in the leaves. So then we talked about the leaves and we talked about why there's leaves on the ground and the season's changing, and how there's all different color leaves and there's so many different things that you can do. Just talking about leaves, you can talk about color, size, shape. Seasons. So just as a parent, just trying to find moments where you can talk and teach your kids, and it's not specifically just sitting there. Reading a book to them, because we love reading books, but sometimes children get antsy, so sometimes it's nice to just show them things outside and just moments where they're. Even in the car and they're looking out the window. Oh, wow. Like I said, my kids love cars and trucks, so yeah, you could be driving places and they'll say, oh, look at the bulldozer, and we'll talk about what the bulldozer's doing and why the bulldozer's there. So just trying to figure out ways to. Educate kids without actually sitting them down and saying, okay, now we're gonna learn and we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that. Just making it moments where, like I said, you know about the leaves and the seasons, but they don't. So just have a conversation with them, I think help kids and help parents be the parents who are not. Educators don't understand that it's not just sitting down here. We're gonna learn right now, we're gonna read a book that you could be learning all day long. Yes. And there's so many different opportunities for us to be teaching our children without specifically saying, okay, we're gonna sit down and learn. Yeah. Like you could be looking out the window and counting cars or counting the school buses that go by, but just different ways to get kids learning and different. Forms throughout the day that make it fun. And like I said, you're not just sitting there. Okay, we're gonna learn right now.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah, no, I like that. It's natural and it's something that just happens on your everyday living and it's just like a lifestyle really. It's a lifestyle choice. I really think that does align with, a lot of homeschool family's philosophy because the idea is that you have the whole day together and that learning is not confined to a building or to a certain setting, but that it can be happening all the time. And so I think that really would resonate with with homeschool families. Sometimes we think the of when you start your education is like having to start when they're at a certain age. But what I've learned as a dad, I have six children and they range from 12 to 21. And what I've learned over the years of raising kids is that learning, like you said, learning happens all the time and that it can start at as early as birth and or even in the womb. And I like what you're describing, I'm just getting a picture of you as a mother with these three kids and you wouldn't say I'm a homeschool mom, but the fact is you're learning with your kids all the time and it just sounds like so aligned with a lot of the philosophy that people, at least the people that I. Hang out with in the homeschool world, you know? So it's a, it sounds like, what do you think about that? How have you and your husband thought about education in the coming years with all your kids? Like, how have you thought about the way you want them educated?

Christine Devane:

So they do go to public school right now and we'll see how things work out and if we want to homeschool them. I honestly had never really thought about it because I was a public school teacher. Yeah. But now that I've done a lot of podcasts and I've talked to a lot of people about homeschooling, I've thought more about it. So really,

Timmy Eaton:

Way

Christine Devane:

we'll see. But. To add to the everyday learning. I also take them to a lot of places where they can learn things. So we go to a lot of museums. We go on a lot of trips, so the aquarium is a great place to go. They like to go on the duck boats. They're small, so they enjoy going places, and I think that there's all the different. Places that people can take them to in their town, their neighborhood. Yes. Just to get them out of their house. But it's also, they learn through experiences. So when we take them to all these places like the Children's Museum and they're learning through the activities that they're doing, I think that's another great way that parents of. Public and homeschool children totally can teach their kids and have fun with them. It's just to find places to bring them where they can learn and be engaged. My kids love the aquarium, so we go there a lot.

Timmy Eaton:

Field trips of any kind and I like what you're saying, and I don't even like the titles of homeschool public school. I personally don't even like that. It's like families learning together or intentional parenting or intentional living as a family. You just saying, I naturally wanna do this with my kids. The only factor really is the amount of time. And so anyway, I think that's awesome what you're doing with your kids. It sounds like they're having an amazing experience and so that's a credit to you and your husband as parents? I just throw out there, I always let people know because I feel like there's a lot of misconceptions or preconceptions about what homeschooling is, and it looks different in every family, and it's increased so much. And so I always put it out there because I've been doing it for 17 plus years to just leave the door open for people. If you ever have questions to come to somebody that has more experience because it's been such an awesome experience for us, and you learn so much about that extra time and how to utilize that. And not as a way to Hey, you should homeschool, not that at all, but more Hey, if you have interest, you should ask. Because I wrote a dissertation on homeschooling and when I did my defense in front of like the panel. One of the things that was just like so apparent was that people just aren't aware. They're not aware of the options and they have ideas about I wasn't a public school teacher. I happened to be one, but I have done public education, I've been educating for 25 years. And you think you have to transfer the school to the home and there's just so many ideas like that our eyes were open to.'cause both my wife and I were public schooled. And so anyway, it's just interesting to me and some parents find that. They would've done that had they understood what it was and what it could look like, and so I always like to throw that out there. But this has been an awesome conversation. I loved hearing from all of your experiences and want everybody to make sure you go to Christine Dash Deva for on her website, and also check out Elephant Beach, her book, but I'll give you the last word. Anything you wanna say in, in closing here.

Christine Devane:

So the last thing I wanna say is just for parents out there to be kind and caring to their children, because as I said before, everybody has different personalities and it is tough being shy. And like the character in the book, she wants to join the group and it takes her a little while to warm up. And I think that's really hard for us as parents to understand. And especially, like I said, my husband's an extrovert, so he doesn't always understand why my son doesn't want to go play with the other kids all the time. So just to really. Be patient and understanding of the shy kids out there because it is tough. It's not easy, and I think that as parents, we just need to understand what's best for them and then what they need, obviously. They need to be socialized at some point, but if they want to just stay with you or if they take a little longer, then that's okay.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah, that's totally fine. Do you have a few. Tips, like specific tips that people could have when they notice that a kid is less likely to engage. The first thing that I've learned as a teacher and as a parent is like that we sometimes look at something as a problem. Like that's a problem. Yes.

Christine Devane:

I think a lot of people do that,

Timmy Eaton:

and that's an interesting thing. It's because somebody's different from us. We go, okay, what's the problem here that we have to diagnose? And it's like, well, there's no problem. The person's just different from you. And has a different personality.

Christine Devane:

Exactly. So if

Timmy Eaton:

you were to give a few, specifics to maybe increase understanding not necessarily to cater to somebody who is shy or extrovert or whatever, but more just to say things to understand when you observe that someone might be shyer than another kid or whatever.

Christine Devane:

So I would agree with the problem thing because I had a birthday party and one of my friend's children did not wanna join in, and then she kept apologizing to me and I said, it's fine. Yeah, if he doesn't wanna join in. And I think she was so embarrassed that he didn't wanna join in. And I said, it's fine if he's not causing a problem. He's sitting there, he's okay. But I think a lot of parents do think it's. Problem I think that people just need to understand that not everybody wants to join in. There was. Party at the library over the summer, and it was a Shark Week party. My other son ran right away with his friends and then he wanted to stay with me in color, and so there was other kids coloring. So I stayed with him for a little while and then I backed up and then he didn't realize that I was gone. So sometimes I do some leading with him where I go into a situation with him and then I'll back up and leave the situation. So I think it's different with all kids, but I think that parents can. Instead of forcing them and saying, okay, you know what? You have to do this. We're at a birthday party. You have to, just giving them some time to warm up and saying, okay, if you wanna sit with me for a couple minutes, that's fine, or maybe we can try it together. And I think that helps a child feel more comfortable than rather just saying, here you go. If all the other kids joined, you need to join too. And I think a lot of times people do that and people don't understand that. If they don't know anybody, they might not wanna join. So sometimes too, trying to get them to meet a friend or saying, oh, let's go see what this kid's doing, or. Let's go over there. I think that's the best thing to do for shy kids. And then also, one thing I hated was when people would say, why are you so shy? That's a silly question, but a lot of people ask kids that and

Timmy Eaton:

yeah,

Christine Devane:

they don't know. And what do you want them to say for an answer? And I also did not like when the teachers would call on me and I wasn't prepared for it. So when I was a teacher, I tried not to do that. I just wanted to share their own thoughts and ideas without being put on the spot. So with my son, that's quiet, I sometimes ask him questions to try to get him to talk. But yeah, I think, just doing some guiding with the shy kids and maybe easing them into social situations. Rather than just dropping them off and saying, okay, we're all set. You need to go make new friends. Because like I said, my older son's fine. You would drop'em off anywhere. He will talk to anyone in the room. My middle son is not going to do that. So just knowing that and taking the time to let him warm up to the situation, I think is something that parents. Everywhere can do to help shy kids.

Timmy Eaton:

That was such a good answer, Christine, my thoughts are this after that and I feel like this lesson has been apparent or has been taught to me so much recently in different context, you even mentioned, you said at some other point they can be socialized or whatever. And here's what I think your friend was experiencing, when was it her son that wasn't wanting to go hang out or whatever? Yes. It's and think about the effect on the kid when when he or she sees his mom or dad apologizing for just the way they naturally are. It's oh, there's something wrong with me. Or like you said a teacher that's going, you know, as, as if answering a question is the only way for a kid to part. Actively in a class. You can write in a journal. You can just think, you can share with a partner or in a small group. There's so many ways to participate, like in a classroom setting or in any learning setting. And we try to label each other as shy or extroverted. You said people would come up to you and say, Hey, why are you so shy? If you reverse that, you'd say, why are you so loud? It's like you identify some characteristic with somebody and you ask them. Why it is and it's just'cause that's how I am. And it's just a trait. It's not a better or worse thing. It's a different thing. And so I think what I'm learning is that what we're talking about a lot of times is what's culturally acceptable because your friend would've been like, oh, I feel so embarrassed that my kid isn't participating, as if. As if that's a reflection of her parenting or a reflection of the something's wrong with the kid. They're different from other kids, man. There's nothing wrong with this. And I think we have to stop labeling those situations and having one concept of what socialization is, and I think it ties into what I was experiencing when I defended my dissertation was this idea that there are many options. There are many differences, and let each of us choose how we will, but let's at least be informed about what options are out there and I think it's probably a lack of education that makes us go. What's wrong with that kid? It's like there's nothing wrong with them. They're different from you. That's it anyway. I dunno what you think about it. Yes.

Christine Devane:

And she's very outgoing and her son is not and it's fine. That's how he is. And yeah, like I said, we have children. My older son, he could talk all day and my other two are not. So that's their personalities. Totally. And it's fine and we just have to understand it and embrace it and. Not feel bad or think, like you said, think that there's something wrong with them. Everybody is perfect the way they are.

Timmy Eaton:

And you said foster kindness and acceptance. And I think that's a great way to say it. I appreciate everything you said. Thank you for taking time with us today and and being on the podcast. This has been Christine Deva, everybody. Thank you.

Christine Devane:

Thank you so much for having me on.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah, you bet. Thank you. That wraps up another edition of this Golden Hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it if you would take a minute and give us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. It helps out a lot, and if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.