132. More Than a Spectator: How Intentional Dads Transform the Homeschool Experience

In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Steve Pedersen from Alberta. Steve is a homeschool father of 11 children, Yale graduate in Public Health, and avid learner. Steve and I explore the six key roles of a proactive homeschool dad. Steve emphasizes that dads don't need to be the all-knowing authority; instead, the most powerful thing they can do is model a love of learning by discovering things alongside their kids. Alignment with your spouse is foundational — dads must be genuinely invested in the homeschool process to have credibility, contribute meaningfully, and support their spouse without adding to her insecurities or burnout. Being an advocate means championing your children as individuals and openly celebrating homeschooling rather than downplaying it out of insecurity. Steve's guiding family purpose — "helping our kids learn to love learning in their own best way" — captures the heart of the conversation: proactive homeschool dads don't need to do more, they just need to be more intentional.

Resources

Ken Robinson - Schools Kill Creativity

Thomas Jefferson Education

Rupert Ross 

Proactive Homeschool Dad (PHD) Course

PHD Course

This Golden Hour

Transcript

Steve Pedersen 0:00

And the beauty of it being a lifestyle is even if you're a busy dad who gets home at, seven at night and your Saturdays are busy too because you're taking care of the house, you could still be like, Hey, I'm going to teach the kids something as part of homeschooling. Yes. And it might be fixing the breaks on the car and you might be like, oh, that's weird, but really, how many grade 12 students know how to fix breaks and how many adults wish they knew? That's a pretty cool skill, just as an example,

Timmy Eaton 0:26

Hey guys. This is Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six, doctor of Education, creator of the Proactive Homeschool dad or PhD course, and host of this Golden Hour podcast that you're listening to right now. We've been homeschooling for almost two decades now, and we've had three of our children go from birth to university without the conventional school system and without a diploma. This Golden Hour Podcast focuses primarily on supporting homeschool dads with their important roles and responsibilities, specifically helping them to align and strengthen their relationships with their spouses and children. But we'll also discuss tons of homeschool topics and books and curricula. So pour an ice cold glass of carbonated water with a lime. Go for a long drive or do a chore, and listen to another inspiring episode of this Golden Hour podcast. you're listening to this Golden Hour podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Steve Peterson from Alberta. Steve is a homeschool father of 11 children, Yale graduate and public health and avid learner. Steve and I explore in this conversation the six key roles of a proactive homeschool dad based on a course I created. Steve emphasizes that dads don't need to be the all-knowing authority. Instead, the most powerful thing they can do is model a love of learning by discovering things alongside their kids. Alignment with your spouse is foundational. Dads must be genuinely invested. In the homeschool process to have credibility contribute meaningfully and support their spouse without adding to their insecurities or burnout. Being an advocate means championing your children as individuals and openly celebrating homeschooling rather than downplaying it out of insecurity. Steve's guiding family purpose, helping our kids learn to love learning in their own best way captures the heart of the conversation. Proactive. Homeschool dads don't need to do more, they just need to be more intentional. Welcome back to this Golden Hour podcast. Today we are excited to have with us Steve Peterson from Southern Alberta. Steve, thanks for being with us.

Steve Pedersen 2:30

Thanks, Tim. Happy to be here.

Timmy Eaton 2:32

So good to have Steve back. One of my earliest episodes was with Steve and his wife. We've been friends for many years and I just wanted to run some ideas by Steve and let him kind of comment on that. I'll just give a little bit of background and then Steve, fill in the gaps. Steve is a father of 11 children and he is originally from BC and then ended up moving to Alberta, I dunno, was it almost 20 years ago now? Were you married when you got your master's degree at Yale University? Yeah.

Steve Pedersen 3:01

Yeah, I was. Yep.

Timmy Eaton 3:02

What was that in and what led to you getting that master's degree at Yale?

Steve Pedersen 3:07

My master's degree was in public health. We had three kids at the time and I think our fourth came just after I finished, like a few months after. So it was definitely a family experience. It was actually really nice. I talk about it often when people ask me like what do you think about school? I'm like, going to school with family is the best because it forces you to have boundaries like school's, one of these vacuums that can take up every spare. Nanosecond. But like my school didn't suffer because I had family and we came through it and it was funny, both of our dads before we went, they were like yeah, Steve, you're not gonna see much of your family. Or Hey Naomi, you're not gonna see much of Steve. Like he's got this school. He is gonna be busy, da. And. Both of us were like, thanks dad, but no. And it worked out really well as a family experience, and I think it taught me things too that were helpful in my career. You don't need infinite or undefined or. Even a lot of time to do quality work. It's learning to focus and be productive in the time you have, I think is the biggest career skill that came out of that, even more than any topic area.

Timmy Eaton 4:05

I actually like that, and I think that's relevant to what we're gonna be talking about today, because as parents, you feel overwhelmed when you have your first child. And then you feel like, man, if I take on other things, and there is a line somewhere where it's just too much, but I almost feel like when you have more going on, you're compelled to manage your time better. And like you said, you're not spending unneeded time deliberating over an assignment or over paper. You gotta get the job done.

Steve Pedersen 4:28

Yeah,

Timmy Eaton 4:29

absolutely. And that's relevant because we're gonna be talking about homeschool dads and the course that I've developed is proactive homeschool dad, PhD. And to be a proactive homeschool dad, sometimes people think, man, that's gonna stretch me beyond what I can bear. And I think it just helps you to be more intentional. I really do.

Steve Pedersen 4:44

Yeah.

Timmy Eaton 4:45

And were you guys doing that locally? Like you guys did that at Yale?

Steve Pedersen 4:48

Yeah. We moved to Connecticut, we moved there from Victoria. I'd spent a year in Spokane before that. But then we went back to Victoria and then went to Connecticut for two years and loved it. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton 4:57

And because Naomi was homeschooled, you had already talked about that and you guys were already ready to homeschool, weren't you?

Steve Pedersen 5:03

Our oldest would've been, four or five when I started. So still preschool age, but we definitely been in that space mentally, we seen other people do it and siblings and relatives and friends. Yeah, it was something we'd been talking about. Even at that age, I guess you do start homeschooling'cause you're doing things as a family and kind of getting used to that. Routine even when kids are five or six,

Timmy Eaton 5:26

yes.

Steve Pedersen 5:26

So it's different than you're like, oh, you're supposed to be in grade two when you're five years old. But it's still homeschooling in a sense.

Timmy Eaton 5:32

Yeah, I agree. My common phrase is, I'll say it's from womb to university or womb till life after homeschool or birth to university, whatever it is, but

Steve Pedersen 5:41

yeah.

Timmy Eaton 5:42

But was Naomi actually considering any other form of education?

Steve Pedersen 5:45

We looked at. Montessori not against public school, both of us went through public school ourselves, she did homeschool and public school and her upbringing. So we were open to all, and our kids have done both. We haven't been a hundred percent exclusive homeschooling in our approach. Yeah. But it was always a core of what we wanted to do. And the other things were. Complimentary to it, if they could add value beyond what we could do in homeschooling, I think would be a way to describe it.

Timmy Eaton 6:11

Yeah. Yes. That's well said. Good. That's good. Here's my idea and you tell me if you're cool with this. So in my course, I throw out basically six identities or roles that homeschool dads have, and that's from my own experience from gleaning from other people. And so what I was thinking I'll just tell you what those six are. And then, whatever resonates at first, we'll start with that one and then I'll say, okay, after we've talked about that a bit here are the remaining five, and then you go, let's do this one now. Is that cool? Okay, so here are the six different roles, responsibilities which one grabs you first. Then we'll talk about that one, and I'm not gonna do it in the order that I do it in my course. The roles and responsibilities are these participant, listener, companion, advocate, learner and protector.

Steve Pedersen 6:55

That's interesting. I actually like learner, that one's standing out.

Timmy Eaton 6:59

Okay. So first of all, what does that make you think? What does that mean for you? Why would that be a major role or responsibility of a homeschool dad?

Steve Pedersen 7:09

There's a few perspectives on this. I think one perspective is. To let go of the idea that as the homeschool dad, you need to be the encyclopedia that knows everything. And to be open to the thought that you're a learner too. I'm a learner too. Kids learn really well when we're learning together, and it's very easy to tell oh, the difference between we're doing something somebody's done 10 times before versus we're discovering something together. Yes. There's a genuineness to the experience of, yeah, let's figure this out. I have no idea how to do whatever it is we're gonna do today, but let's figure it out together. But I think the other piece on a completely different angle, wherever you start as a homeschool dad. You'll grow and change over the years. So you need to be open to your own learning and personal growth like you'll have a mindset, you'll have a reason for why you're doing homeschool and why it makes sense and what you see the value of it being. And that will be challenged and it will grow in good ways. Not just challenging ways, in good ways as you go through the process, So homeschool becomes your teacher in that sense, Like a good life. We have teachers, sometimes they're people, sometimes they're experiences, Homeschool, let it be a teacher, Yeah. And then you are the learner, And that shift opens up all kinds of curiosity, which is fun too, Just let go of the idea of you have to be an authority. You have to know enough to homeschool. I think that's a myth that's so damaging. You have to know enough to do it. You have to be good at learning, You have to be good at being curious.

Timmy Eaton 8:34

That's great. Everybody's gonna take a different angle on what that means for them. Because as you were speaking, I was thinking of the importance of modeling, learning. Like when SAR and I made the decision for me to pursue a doctorate degree up at, university of Alberta, a lot of the reason was like, it's good for your kids to see you. Pursuing learning in a very deliberate way like that. But on a daily basis that's even more impactful, like you're saying, learning together. And so that modeling, learning and willing to make mistakes and admit that you don't know something and you wanna learn more, I think is probably more important. Learning in general is what we've been talking about, but learning about home education or education, should there be a regular effort by a homeschool dad to be learning about education and knowing a little bit about homeschool and like key people and philosophies, how, important is that, I guess is what I'm asking? That he be learning about homeschool and education and movements and stuff like that?

Steve Pedersen 9:24

To me, it's personal in the sense for some dads, they won't care. Other dads, it's everything. Like some dads need to know the history, the evolution of different schools of thought and position themselves within a spectrum of approaches or philosophies. Other dads are like, that's irrelevant to what we do every day. Let's just figure out what the day to day looks like. So neither ones right or wrong, it's just what the personal need is of the dead. Do they need to know all that? Or is it in one ear out the other, and how am I gonna teach them algebra And I can't even remember anything I learned in math ever. Yes. Yes. Kind of thing. So I think it varies. Definitely varies. Like for me, I didn't get into homeschooling theory as much as. More like learning theory. Like Ken Robinson was big for me. Like he has a really famous TED Talk, yeah. And it's called Schools Kill Creativity. At one point it was the most viewed TED Talk ever. And partly'cause he's just hilarious. Like he's a storyteller. But his message is there's many different types of intelligence and public school is good at one type. So there are a lot of kids that go through school and don't realize they're smart because their particular type of intelligence hasn't been what's been rewarded during their public school experience. That's one of his key messages. So for me, that was a intellectual anchor. So if anybody said, why are you homeschooling? I'm like, you know what? There's so many ways we can learn and what homeschooling does is it's giving us the latitude to experiment and find the best ways for our kids and our family. Like growing up myself I think everyone has experiences in public school where there are things that work well and things that don't work well. That kind of informed the rest of their life and how they approach education. For me, I remember being in younger grades like grade three or four and being bored. I was like, why are we spending an hour learning this? I already got it. Like the teachers actually had to talk to my mom once to be like, Steve's having trouble paying attention in class. And the conversation was well, he's kind of like, already understands this. So I had a little bit of empathy from that perspective. But then also I moved between grade 11 and grade 12. My grade 12 year. In a whole new uncomfortable social setting. My brain suffered. Like I was in classes where I'm like, I know how to do this, but it just wasn't clicking because Yeah. You,

Timmy Eaton 11:40

you were overstimulated or,

Steve Pedersen 11:42

yeah, or I was so insecure socially because everything was new. Like I knew nobody, that my brain just wasn't firing like it otherwise might. So I've experienced even just using those two as examples, there's so many things that affect our ability to learn. But for us it was, yeah, like we have the latitude to. Do lots of different things in how we approach learning.

Timmy Eaton 12:04

I appreciate that response a lot and as you say that, it makes me know that I'm gonna have to do iterations to this course because, you take your being from your own experience, but you're right, like everybody is so unique and so it's hard to say. All dads should learn this or, all should read this stuff or whatever, so I really appreciate that. Having said that, would you say besides Ken Robinson were there key players in influencing your learning philosophy or even homeschool philosophy? Or maybe it's key people or types of homeschooling or whatever it is that you would say to that.

Steve Pedersen 12:39

Yeah. The name of the book's escaping me right now, but the whole idea of phases of learning, where it's like love of learning is the first phase, And then you get into the other phases beyond that, that really resonated, Because again, I thought back to my own public schooling. It's I'm learning numbers, I'm learning letters, I'm learning how to write, I'm learning all these things. And it's kind of a computer you're being given. Code and it's producing an output that works great. Like my brain worked that way in the first few years. But what's better is loving the process, If you can really. Light people on fire about learning. That's goal, So that whole philosophy where it starts with level learning is the first phase. And the other thing about it, it's not bound like this is last until age 11. It's like this is the first phase. It can be different for different people, And it can also be repeated, it can be iterative. Back to that idea, you can go through different times. Like you can rediscover level learning at different ages and phases of your life too. Like even you going back for your PhD, okay. I can find level learning again to make this work Totally Totally. So that was a very helpful idea just to see it, explain that way.

Timmy Eaton 13:41

Yeah, that's great. I don't know if that was Thomas Jefferson type.

Steve Pedersen 13:45

Thomas Jefferson,

Timmy Eaton 13:45

yeah.

Steve Pedersen 13:46

Yeah. That's what it was.

Timmy Eaton 13:46

Yeah. Thomas Jefferson education. Any other seminal works or people that you're like, yeah. That was big for me personally. Not like necessarily for your family, but for you personally as the dad.

Steve Pedersen 13:56

I think just seeing the examples around us was big, Seeing people thriving in it, Because the negative spin that's out there around homeschooling is people are gonna suffer, they're gonna fall behind, they're gonna be awkward. They're going to not learn as well.'cause you're not a teacher. Like all these things. But everybody we saw was exactly the opposite, Like the families were thriving, the kids were thriving. The teachers were so kind and empathetic if you were in a teacher led program of some type, So the experience and just being able to look around was really helpful.

Timmy Eaton 14:28

As you say that, it makes me harken back to our first discussion almost, what, two and a half years ago or something? And I remember Naomi talking a lot about emotional intelligence. In that discussion and even the idea of her modeling learning now, I know she's gone back to school and done stuff in Hawaii. But like the emotional intelligence part that I thought was so important because. Like you said, you see this thriving and today it's man, there's some healthiness to just being with your family instead of your peers all day. And so anyway, I think that was something that kind of appealed to us as well. That was awesome on learning. Are you cool if we jump to another one?

Steve Pedersen 15:00

Yeah.

Timmy Eaton 15:01

Okay. Advocate, participant, listener, protector, or companion. And companion. What I mean is specifically with your spouse like alignment.

Steve Pedersen 15:10

That's an interesting one. Let's cool with companion. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton 15:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So each one of my modules says be a something. So it says, be a learner, be a companion, be an advocate, be a participant, and so on. So this one's be a companion. And what I mean by that is alignment. And learning to be aligned with your spouse. So what does that mean for you and Naomi? What has that looked like for you guys and what does that look like? Now?

Steve Pedersen 15:30

I like the word alignment, but I think within alignment has to be strong enough to allow for misalignment too, This is an example. So I might be wondering like, wow, my child's struggling reading and bring that up. And we have to be aligned enough that we can have conversations about is this working or do we need something different without it becoming.

Timmy Eaton 15:48

A judgment

Steve Pedersen 15:49

of her or judgmental. Yeah. Yes, exactly right. Exactly.

Timmy Eaton 15:52

How come she can't read right now? Are you not doing your job as the homeschool mom?

Steve Pedersen 15:55

Exactly right. Anytime judgment enters, it's, not good. But alignment. Like that type of alignment comes from the husband or the partner investing enough in the process that they have credibility when they speak. Wow. If I'm just on the couch watching TV equivalent approach to homeschooling, I'm an armchair critic. And armchair critics have no weight. So you need to be involved and

Timmy Eaton 16:21

invested.

Steve Pedersen 16:22

Invested. That's a good word. Yes. Enough that if I have something to bring up. Or I have a contribution to make, or I have a concern about something.

Timmy Eaton 16:32

It's credible.

Steve Pedersen 16:33

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So to me, that's the bigger part of alignment. If we're doing homeschool planning or we're planning curriculum or whatever. Just like for a business or an organization, like you need to have a phase in that type of a process where you're brainstorming and you wanna be bringing different ideas to the table, You need to have a relationship around homeschooling that can tolerate disagreement and energetic conversation.'cause that's where better ideas will come from. Yes. But then once you've settled on the course, that's good. So you're aligned, like you've gone from a process of let's become aligned, you've sorted through, you brainstormed, you disagreed, and then you become aligned. And then as the homeschool year progresses, as things come up, the vision of alignment, you keep checking in. But if there's something that. Needs attention again, you need to be able to bring that up in a way that honors the original alignment and honors the intention behind it too.

Timmy Eaton 17:25

And that your spouse will like, care about you don't have credibility, you're not invested in this. I don't really need your opinion. I would venture to say, and this is a guess, but I would opine that, that's probably more common. Than not actually like that a dad kind of just assumes this passive role because the fact is he's not as invested because, a lot of them start out not always, but a lot of times it's the mom that leading and saying, I don't want my child to go to school, or I have these things. Sometimes it's combined and sometimes it's the dad that leads that. In my experience talking to lots of people now in this podcast especially, it's the mom who leads out on that. And so the dad just isn't,'cause he is working and whatever else but what I'm trying to like show is that you don't have to be as involved in the direct homeschooling per se, but that it's a lifestyle and that it does require intentionality,

Steve Pedersen 18:13

yeah. And the beauty of it being a lifestyle is even if you're a busy dad who gets home at, seven at night and your Saturdays are busy too because you're taking care of the house, you could still be like, Hey, I'm going to teach the kids something as part of homeschooling. Yes. And it might be fixing the breaks on the car and you might be like, oh, that's weird, but really, how many grade 12 students know how to fix breaks and how many adults wish they knew? That's a pretty cool skill, just as an example,

Timmy Eaton 18:38

Yeah.

Steve Pedersen 18:38

But I think every dad has something they're good at and they enjoy doing. They're given the right opportunity. Yeah. I could do that with my kids every week or every three days, or whatever the right frequency is, yeah. And that contribution to the homeschooling. It creates some of that credibility and alignment that we were talking about earlier. And it doesn't require a change. Do what comes naturally, do what you love, but just, oh,

Timmy Eaton 19:00

I love that

Steve Pedersen 19:01

approach. That as something that you can bring to the table.

Timmy Eaton 19:04

And see, everything is learning. That's why all of these are intertwined, all of these roles and responsibilities, T. That's learning, And I don't think that's a surprise to anyone, like to do breaks. First of all, it's quality time, it's teaching, it's learning.

Steve Pedersen 19:16

Quick story, my daughter's visiting and, they were living outta the country, so they're trying to buy a car. So yesterday I'm like, I've got three boys, 14, 14 and almost 16. Okay, boys, we're get only gonna buy a used car. And they all just like light up okay,

Timmy Eaton 19:27

yeah, that is cool.

Steve Pedersen 19:28

None of us are mechanics, so let's be real, but this is how we're gonna go about it. I know.

Timmy Eaton 19:32

In my course, I talk about creating a purpose document. And we've done iterations of that. But the idea is. If you had to give a purpose statement that like embodies the Peterson family, and if you're okay with me putting you on the spot right now to try to do it and I'm, and don't feel like you're tied to this for eternity, obviously, one thing I talk about with a purpose statement is to say that it's a living statement and a living document which means that it's changeable and should be over time as you change and learn and grow that statement might change. So if you had to do one concise statement about here's the Peterson purpose for learning and living, how would this is totally on the spot, but

Steve Pedersen 20:14

yeah. But

Timmy Eaton 20:14

you're good with pressure.

Steve Pedersen 20:16

So it's interesting you added living,'cause that suggested two thoughts. Then when I was just learning, I was like going down one path, but. When you had a living, now there's two paths.

Timmy Eaton 20:25

Yeah.

Steve Pedersen 20:25

So the purpose statement around learning one of the previous jobs I had, people said, what do you do, Steve? I'm like my job's to help my teams do their best work. And I think that works really well for homeschooling. It's like our job is to help our kids. Learn to love learning in their best way might be how I'd rephrase it and adapt it to that. Cool. So

Timmy Eaton 20:45

yes

Steve Pedersen 20:45

it won't be the same for each of them. They have different interests. They have different skills. Some of them have dyslexia. There's different things, right? Yes. But whatever their own situation is, I think it's successful when they learn to love learning in their own best way. They understand who they are, they understand their talents. Yeah. Part of understanding the talents too is understanding their non talents. Two of my daughters right now are doing math, and the reason they're doing it is I'm around to help them. And they're like, if we get it done while dad's around, we'll never have to do it again. I'm like, great, let's do it. Get the required course off the table. But they know it's not their talent. They have other talents, just as an example. And then the living part kind of ties, but when you added that in. One of my favorite models, this comes from Rupert Ross, one of his books, but he's like a life worth living is a life. You can look back five years and say, I sure didn't know too much back then. And I love that as a philosophy for life. Yes, just the idea that we're always curious. We're always learning. We give ourselves the freedom to change how we view things, change our minds, expand our minds. So if all of my kids had that approach for the rest of their life, I would smile and be like, this is cool.

Timmy Eaton 21:52

It's exactly what you're saying about your purpose statement for living is that, there's more to learn, there's more to be curious about. And then your progression. Is ongoing instead of this thing that just starts and stops like bell schedules at a school or something, so just do a couple more things before you transition to another role. Is about companion or aligning with your spouse is in my mind and in the examples that I give often of our family is two major examples of where. I feel like if we were more aligned together, I think it would've been a better experience. And it's not that we regret, just like you're saying, it's a learning experience but it would go back to change things. The two things where I felt like we weren't aligned even up to this point is I didn't catch on fast enough when Sarah was learning about for example, spending time with like-minded families and how important that was to the rearing of our children. And so there are some things that if I would go back, I would definitely be more intentional as a father. To foster and nurture those relationships with like-minded families? Not because, oh, I only want to be with these types of people. But because I do have a role as a parent and that's something I would've. Done better is nurtured like-minded family relationships more than just kids. Meeting kids at a school, being friends, having no clue about their family, having no clue about the influence either my kid is having on them or vice versa. So that's one. And two is we have gotten our kids involved in school sports and they've enjoyed that. But it's been in a lot of ways counterproductive to our main purpose which is, helping our kids to love learning, you know, become disciples of Jesus Christ. It just felt like that it was almost counterproductive because it introduced a lot of what we would see as. Yeah. Undesirables of the public system or the conventional way of doing things. And then it became a battle of like ideology. On one hand it's good, there's some things that are good to learn when you play school sports. On the other hand, there's a lot of. Things that are just unnecessary or totally out of balance when it comes to the importance of things. So those are two examples I would give of misalignment. That was really long. Say whatever you want from that.

Steve Pedersen 23:54

It's an interesting exercise to look at things in hindsight, isn't it? I think the family one's interesting, right? Because homeschools personal, I think for everybody that does it, they have a very personal attachment to it and a reason for doing it. But it's balancing that with, yeah. If you could be part of a community or create a community around you I think it offers. But opportunities beyond what you can do on your own if you do it right. Like you can look at it and say I'm gonna be even busier or more stressed out.'cause there's more places to go or more places to be, but. You can also look at it and say we can carpool, we can share, we can take turns, we can do other things. And like I say, even sometimes just spending time with people like, oh, you do this, or you understand this, or you get that. Like it can open up

Timmy Eaton 24:38

dialogue,

Steve Pedersen 24:38

learning dialogue. Yeah. It can open up dialogue and learning in new ways beyond what. Any individual family could do. The other day we had some people over for dinner and for some reason they were talking about, the first time they met me, they were like, I remember bringing my kids over to Steve's house, and he was just on the computer, on the couch and there were all these kids just running around and he was just like

Timmy Eaton 24:59

focused.

Steve Pedersen 25:00

Yeah. And I did that out of necessity. But I think in hindsight, that also cost me, right? Like I think I could have been better at not feeling like I had to focus, but actually being more present in the process. Yeah. And I think it was easier for me as the kids got older oh, now they're doing this. Yeah, I can help them with that. Oh, now they're learning this. Oh, I can help them with that. I can help edit a paper or whatever. But the earlier stages, I didn't put as much investment into and didn't connect as well with. Yeah. So I think that's something I would do differently, if I was doing this again.

Timmy Eaton 25:33

Yeah, no, I appreciate you sharing that. It is, it's hard, one thing that we're bringing out right now is just like for learning and living a happy, successful life. I think there has to be a level of vulnerability and acknowledgement in order to progress, Yeah. Like the advancement in any industry or any. Product doesn't happen if people are like, no, it's good how it is. Yeah. Yeah. So if we are this progress in motion, then we need to be humble and vulnerable and be able to see that. So are you cool to jump to another one?

Steve Pedersen 25:59

Yeah.

Timmy Eaton 26:01

Attention homeschool mamas. Wouldn't you love to know how to help your husband feel more confident, more supportive, and more united with you and homeschool dads? Don't you wanna know how to give the best homeschool support to your wife and kids without having to guess all the time. Well, I created the proactive homeschool dad or PhD course to help homeschool dads become more intentional and involved without adding extra stuff to their full plates. In the PhD course, I share the following three secrets. Secret number one, become a Proactive Homeschool Dad or PhD, how to develop six powerful roles of a proactive homeschool dad or PhD in six weeks without feeling overworked. Secret number two. Your wife needs you, how to use your unique personality, skills and knowledge to support your wife and kids with homeschooling without having to be an expert. And secret number three, you have time. How to find enough time to support your wife and kids with homeschooling, even if your schedule is crazy busy. So go to this golden hour.org right now and register for my free web class on becoming a PhD, a proactive homeschool dad, and get way more detail about the course. This free live training happens every Thursday night at 6:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, or if you're ready right now for this course, go to this golden hour.org and sign up for the course right away. It's a self-paced, adaptable course with a comprehensive, interactive workbook. If you put in the work, I know you'll get the result you want from this course, and there's no risk to you at all because if you or your spouse don't love it, we'll, give you your money back, no questions asked. Thanks you guys. Okay. So we've got advocate, protector, participant, and listener.

Steve Pedersen 27:40

Yeah. Let's go with advocate. No.

Timmy Eaton 27:42

Okay. Just like the learner part, I wanna see what you think that means. As a homeschool father, be an advocate and we're focusing on homeschooling, but yeah, what does that bring to your mind? And then I'll tell you what my thinking was with that, and then we'll see how we connect.

Steve Pedersen 27:57

So part of being an advocate, if you think of a lawyer and what do they do if we use that as an example, there's obviously other types of being an advocate too. That's just one. But, you are being very thoughtful and prepared about what you're doing. Yeah. And there's a level of care and taking care of that, a good advocate brings to the table because the people they're advocating for don't have. Either the knowledge or the relationship or the power or influence that they do. So as an advocate for homeschooling in my own family, I didn't feel like I had to be defensive against people saying, oh, you shouldn't do it, or you're doing it wrong. There's a little bit of that, I think always, but that wasn't my worry or my focus. It more, yeah, it didn't

Timmy Eaton 28:45

consume too much.

Steve Pedersen 28:47

But it's more, one thing, Naomi and I did good, which means she did it good and I was there participating. She would spend hours on each of our kids. Let's think about this child. Just what comes to mind? What are their needs? What are their struggles? What are their opportunities? And she would just put that time in, like in such a thoughtful, intentional way. And she would fill up pages with handwritten notes or on a computer, just word processed. And we have 11 kids, so I'm watching this going. We're gonna have a lot to go through by the end, she's yeah. But it actually connected together beautifully and was very helpful but instead of starting as a group, it was that individual, let me really think about this child, And really try and envision their future. What I hope for them, what they see for themselves. But coming at it that way, I think the role of advocate for both parents, and this is another place to be alignment in, is you are the holder of resources. You are the holder of power. You are an expert in the space that you're creating for your children to occupy. So how. How much preparation and time can you put into that to create the best experience possible for them? Yes. As they're navigating it and discovering it for themselves too.

Timmy Eaton 30:00

One thing that you said that was behind the idea of my selection of the word advocate was that I found that, especially in the beginning years of homeschooling, people would say stuff about homeschooling, and in order to just make things lighter, I would use humor a lot and just rip on homeschooling. Do you know what I mean? And I feel like that is actually common for newer homeschool. Dads in particular, they'd be like, yeah, we just wanted our kids to be weird or, whatever. Just to diffuse and disarm people and make it comfortable. Yeah. And I think that's okay to do some level of that, but it got to a point where Saara would look at me and be like, so are you done fooling around about this? And I could tell it was just obvious. It was like. You can stop being insecure about it, right? Yeah. And it's like you can start advocating and because it was almost a level of dishonesty if I'm being totally transparent about it.'cause it was like, no, I actually love this. I see the fruit of my kids. And so what I put down in the course is be an advocate in Word indeed. And you don't have to be weird about it and be like. No, everybody should homeschool. But just say what you like about it and be honest about it. Because I was trying to just avoid the conversation with people because of insecurity. But the reality was, it was awesome, man. I was so impressed what was going on in my home and the development of my children, and why wouldn't I just say that, but it was almost like that deschooling still had to happen so much within me. To feel comfortable saying what I actually felt about it. One thing I thought of and and you expressed that naturally about Naomi was maybe the way that we can be an advocate is homeschool dads, is to just express appreciation for specifically to our spouses, which comes back to the alignment and companion thing because it's a lot of work if the mom is the principal homeschool parent. Which in most cases it is that. And the other thing I thought of was like celebrating achievements that happened, but a common question I ask is what did you find as your role in helping Naomi in particular fill her bucket when it came to homeschooling? Because it is so taxing or can be and sometimes women can even lose their identity. Of themselves because they're so wrapped up in their children, especially when they have 11 children. So what's your role? What have you seen as your role to help her make sure she has time to replenish and fill her bucket and feel motivated to continue leading that charge?

Steve Pedersen 32:14

One thing I've tried my best to do is honor her approach. And how she does it, right? Because she's very good at being sensitive to, I need to replenish my tank if it's low, right?

Timmy Eaton 32:26

Yeah.

Steve Pedersen 32:26

So what that means is on any given homeschool week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday aren't gonna be the same. Like one day there might be a 10 hour intensive on something. The other day it might be half an hour, right? But as the husband, when I understand that and as the supporter, then it's okay, cool. I'm understanding what's happening here.

Timmy Eaton 32:44

Yeah. That's the alignment again.

Steve Pedersen 32:45

Yeah. Yeah. Because when you mention insecurity, and I think we can normalize that. Every person, I think, goes through a stage of insecurity and humor's a good defense for insecurity. It was

32:55

yes

Steve Pedersen 32:55

but a great observation by Sarah. It's okay. Yeah, but can we get to the Yeah, but I think that's normal. I think everyone goes through it, but to not bring that into. Naomi space was part of the protector role in a sense, If I have insecurity, does she ever have insecurity? She wouldn't be human if she didn't. So I don't need to add mine to hers.

Timmy Eaton 33:16

Yeah.

Steve Pedersen 33:16

So my job is to try and protect the culture in our home that gives her the freedom to go about homeschool in the way that. She's feeling works the best. Not to be critical, to find ways to contribute, to find ways to participate as I can, and. If I have insecurity about something, sometimes these things we keep to ourselves and be like, this is a steam issue, Steve. Work on it. And figure it out,

Timmy Eaton 33:45

When you think of Naomi filling her bucket what does she do for that? Like what does fill her bucket? Is she the type that she needs time with the girls night out and that kind of thing? Or does she need time alone to go. Do stuff. What is it that she does that she can in either physical or a metaphorical way leave and then comes back replenished and excited to keep homeschooling

Steve Pedersen 34:05

She's very good at. Alone time and prioritizing that. I know when we were first married, I even thought that was weird. She'd be like, I go off on my own. I'm like, really? I go somewhere with you, but I don't know if I go somewhere on my own Like I just wasn't there. But for her it's it's really having time for herself that makes her life work. And that became a principle for our homeschooling. It's yeah, we have a lot of kids and our home's busy, and I worked from home most of our homeschooling, so I was the guy on the couch who was focusing, but in all of that when she needed time, when she took time. And helping to be a part of that time too. It's okay, you're taking time. What are you gonna do? I'm in this book, you'll see me in three days. Okay, awesome. This is a good book. Let's explore this. You know what, when you find a book that can capture you like that's magical, right? It

Timmy Eaton 34:52

is. Yeah.

Steve Pedersen 34:53

Yeah. Or, but if it was something else too, it's okay, cool. Let's, this is good time. It's gonna be great.'cause you're attracted to the time. There's something about the time that has value and has potential. That's why you're going there. Yeah. Great. You know that. So my role would be support and be open to that time and again, you have to let go of Tuesday, has to look like Monday, there. There's a fluidity to it that lets the process be tuned into the individual parent as well, I think, which is important. I think people burn when they're like, I'm expected to do this every single day. That's a recipe for burnout,

Timmy Eaton 35:23

What I'm getting from this and knowing you for several years, but, hearing these like really specific answers I feel like what you're emulating is like the importance of being flexible. However, that's adapted in each couple's situation or family situation. I just feel that from you, there's this willingness to be flexible and consider something and which aligns with what you said as your purpose of being curious and willing to adjust and change with stuff. The ones that we haven't talked about, our participant, listener, and protector. Can we just do one more and we'll do it brief more briefly? Oh

Steve Pedersen 35:52

yeah. Participant, listener, protector. I touched on protector a little bit. Yeah, you did. Yeah. Listeners is an interesting one, I think as parents, as homeschool teachers is that identity listening isn't the first thing you think of doing when you're a teacher,

Timmy Eaton 36:07

probably should be, but

Steve Pedersen 36:09

Yeah. But it's not like we we plan a lesson. We plan what to say. We plan what to teach. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton 36:13

What do we

Steve Pedersen 36:14

do? Plan, what am I listening for? What am I trying to make sense of? And what's happening would be a what is listening for? It's, it is to understand what's happening.

Timmy Eaton 36:23

I've heard a cool quote by a wise man who said teaching is not talking and telling, but it is. Observing, listening and then knowing what to say. And I thought that was awesome. Yeah. As a classroom teacher for 20 plus years I, to this very day, I can definitely do a lot more of that because, a lot of teachers, it's their show,

Steve Pedersen 36:44

And I think that can be freeing for a lot of homeschooled parents too, right? If it's like. I could bring as much to the table, perhaps more as a listener than I can as a presenter or a instructor Then. Okay. Let me be thoughtful about that. And yes, it might mean you have to sit through people speaking at a curiosity level or language level different than yours. Like in other words, it might not be the most stimulating conversation. But it's an important conversation still. And what the child is listening to often isn't so much like back to the emotional intelligence. They're not listening to so much, what am I saying? In response? They're listening to how am I receiving their effort to make a connection?

Timmy Eaton 37:23

If it's about relationship, we would be more focused about that. You're right.

Steve Pedersen 37:27

Yeah. So the listening isn't always just what to say. It's okay, this is a bid, this is a connection bid, and how can I respond? They won't remember what we said, but they'll remember. Alright, a good time there around that, whatever that was.

Timmy Eaton 37:41

I felt comfortable, I felt safe. I felt like they actually wanted to listen to what I said. You're right. They're not gonna remember the particulars and people say that all the time. It's not what you said it's how they felt, but it's actually true, man. When you think of it in the context of if I were to say specifically you and Naomi do you feel like you have discerned over all these years when Naomi wants you to listen to what she's saying and when she wants you to solve a problem? Because sometimes that's like something a dude has to guess at, and you're like you even have to ask it sometimes. And sometimes I think it's effective to say that, to be like, okay you're either venting or you're wanting me to listen right now. And depending on their emotion and depending on their. Feeling when they deliver this, we can go. Okay. Do you want me to give some suggestions for solving a problem or do you want me to just listen to you and under and just show you empathy and understanding? You know what I'm saying? Do you feel like you figured that out? How have you approached that?

Steve Pedersen 38:33

Yeah, that's a great question. I think even with the best intention, you never get it perfect.

Timmy Eaton 38:38

That's for sure.

Steve Pedersen 38:39

Yeah. And I think of it from my own side, right? Like how many times have I spoken up where I'm like, I really could have used this, but it didn't go there. And usually what I've learned to do is from my perspective, it's okay, could I have brought it up differently or was the wrong emotion attached to the word or the

Timmy Eaton 38:56

timing.

Steve Pedersen 38:57

Or the timing, like 12:02 PM after midnight or am sorry, is not the right time to bring this up. Yeah, kind of thing.

Timmy Eaton 39:04

Which is funny because that's a lot of times when we have time to do that. I imagine for you and Naomi, it's like you're full man. You got a lot going on and sometimes it's not always the best time, but you gotta address stuff.

Steve Pedersen 39:15

You gotta address stuff. Yeah. I think the biggest thing that's been helpful for me in this though, is, making the time to be as connected as we can as a couple, talk about things, spend time together, just in many small ways. If you looked at our life, we don't do a lot of date nights where it's we're going to leftbridge to a restaurant for dinner kind of thing. But we spend a lot of time together. And so if something comes up, very rarely is it like, oh. I had no idea. Usually it's a continuation of something that's come up before where it's like there's a new space or a new idea or a new opportunity or a new frustration around it. So it's let's go to this space again. Yeah. But it's not

Timmy Eaton 39:57

like brand new thing to you and so would you say that? The vast majority of your interactions, it seems is informal communication and listening. And if so, do you ever have a formal time, do you guys say Sunday evening, let's have a homeschool talk, do you have any kind of formal time where, or has your style been just totally informal?'cause you're always together?

Steve Pedersen 40:18

Sunday's kind of been a point of, okay, we're taking time to talk about family, about life, about everything. And we do it with our kids too, but we'd always make time for me and Naomi just to let's just sit down and what's going on? Yeah. Here's the agenda. Yeah. But not even agenda. It's it starts with like, how are you doing? Or a thing and sometimes it's good not to have a calendar or an agenda just to be more touching base, Like, how are things going and what are we stressed about? What are we excited about? And then, because when you do that, the calendaring can happen in 30 seconds, Because the alignment has come before, When you're exploring that space. That's been my experience. But then we also do it during the week though, as needed. And sometimes like I become a Google Calendar guy, I was never like a a pocket Palm pilot guy or a written calendar guy, I never really got into that. But Google Calendar, everything's in Google Calendar now.

Timmy Eaton 41:08

Yes.

Steve Pedersen 41:09

And sometimes I'll be like, I'm looking at the next day going can we need to spend a few minutes talking about tomorrow? And let's talk this through. Or something changes. Okay. Let's just. I touch base on this, the thing that we had talked about.'cause now this has changed or this is happening. And and both of us have the freedom to do that. And it just happens naturally, But making the intentional time on Sunday as best we can, there's some Sundays we miss it, but it's become, it's pretty regular, pretty consistent.

Timmy Eaton 41:36

And I like what you said about as needed I think that's such a great way to say almost anything do things as needed, have some checkpoints or whatever. But do things as needed.'cause otherwise you're too robotic. And that's not how life happens to us. You've already touched on be present, but what have you learned about just like trusting her motherly intuition?'cause I've just learned that that really is a thing. It's a thing that she has some intuition that I don't as a father. That's why we're married is that she brings that to the table. And so have you learned anything about just motherly intuition in your observations?

Steve Pedersen 42:07

That's a good question too. I, there's a few ways to look at that. One is learning to appreciate her gifts, and they're different than mine I don't know if you went through the process when you were like 15 or 16, it's like, what do you want in your future wife? Make a list kind of a thing, Yeah. Like the danger in that kind of an exercise is we project who we are onto that list, So depending what age you are and what your interests are, would affect what's on that list, And naomi doesn't play basketball. That's a good thing. Just as an example, But I think championing her gifts has been one of my objectives. Like I want her to feel like the smartest homeschooling mom out there and the smartest individual out there. And you can't fake that, Like it can't just be words because words. Without support would blow away so quickly. If you were trying to do it just at a word level, Like one day I don't know, six years ago, I wanna get my master's degree. Cool. You haven't finished your bachelor's degree. I know. Okay, how do we help that happen? Yeah. But even there I wanna support this goal. I wanna support this idea. And my response being, how can we help that happen is. Open up the space for possibility to come. Instead of saying, we can't afford to, or Are you sure? Or, yes. And do it this way. It's like, how can we help that happen? See, and I don't ignore cost. Cost is important, but make cost secondary. And that's where you trust the other person too,

Timmy Eaton 43:37

Yes.

Steve Pedersen 43:38

It's yes, we'll figure out costs. And if cost doesn't make sense, it'll be clear to both of us. I won't have to convince you. You won't have to convince me. It becomes part of trusting the intuition.'Cause intuition isn't blind. If you ask me what is intuition, it's like you're trying to honor your inner voice without always understanding where it's taking you and what it's saying. Like you've got a sense about something. Yes. And sometimes it can be hard to put words to it. Or understand what it means one month from now. But the only way to get there is to honor it. Be like, okay, we'll get there. It's a little fuzzy right now. We'll get there. So like she did go back to school and finish her undergraduate degree, like we moved to Hawaii so she could do that. My boss thought I was crazy. She's you're quitting your job, so you're waking back to school. I'm like, yep. See you later. And now she's in a master's degree and she's talking about doing a PhD even, So it's similar thing. It's let's explore that. It's so Steve, why? Why didn't you do a PhD? I'm like I've got reasons, let's explore and let's you know if we can make it fit, and then the interesting thing I find, Tim, is like things resonate when you're focusing on something, Things resonate that support it or that are consistent with it. So I read a book a few years ago. It had a definition of love in it that I'm like, this is good, And it was good because it fit. If it hadn't have fit, I wouldn't have noticed it even, But the definition, and this is a paraphrase, it's the spiritual wellbeing of the other. And they're doing a really good job, differentiating between attraction, connection, and love. There are three different things and so many relationship problems come because we get confused. I'm attracted to somebody. I think it's love. I'm connected to somebody. I think it's love. What is love really? It's this whole other thing, right? But for me, that definition really resonated. And when I think about, it's like similar to what is my vision for homeschooling, that's my vision for my wife. I want her to feel like she's better off because I'm here. I want her to feel like I've helped accelerate and make more possible because I'm here. And so it trusting her intuition. Yeah. That's how you lead a life worth living. Leaning into, I have a feeling about this. I have a sense about this. I feel drawn to this. I feel connected to this. As soon as you feel that you're entering an undefined space that you can't know what's there until you're willing to step into it. So everything in your identity, like protector, advocate, learner, like all of that applies to this specific question. You need to be willing to bring all of those into the space and be like, you wanna get your undergrad? Yeah, let's do it. Step in, look around. That means we're quitting my job and we're going to Hawaii and all these other things are happening too. Like we'll figure it out. That's the path that worked for us. There might have been 20 other paths too,

Timmy Eaton 46:17

And that question is not to say that men and fathers don't have an intuition, but there is something about the motherly intuition. And when I think about times where, I did lead with the wrong question or whatever, and I didn't lean more into that intuition. It wasn't as. Positive and that's why I put it in there. Like someone say, why would you put that as like one of your main things? But that's why, because this, it's a real thing. And when you experience it, you know that. This has been a, such a good conversation. Maybe the last thing I'll ask and then we'll wrap up is my course is called Proactive Homeschool Dad PhD. So what does that mean to Steve Peterson?

Steve Pedersen 46:47

Yeah, I think the proactive part is the key like back to a little bit of earlier. Find ways where you can be excited to do what you love and teach your kids that and give it the same value as if they were in an AP calculus class. Or something else where you're like, I'm so proud of you. Look what you did. Give it that same value, like whatever my interest in scale is, I'm sharing that with them. Yeah, just as good as that honors or AP class that they could have done in a different system.

Timmy Eaton 47:17

Awesome. Thank you very much, man. Thanks for taking time and being with me again.

Steve Pedersen 47:21

Yeah, absolutely, Tim. Thank you. It's been a fun conversation.

Timmy Eaton 47:26

Well, that wraps up another edition of this Golden Hour podcast. Thanks for hanging out for the entire episode. Make sure you check out our website@thisgoldenhour.org where you can find our podcast archives and you can register for the free web class I do to help homeschool dads every Thursday at 6:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, and you homeschool dads can also sign up for the Proactive Homeschool Dad or PhD course on the website. If you haven't done so already, please take a minute and give us a review. An apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you very much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.